kerry Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 Tyne Cot may be the biggest CWG cemetery on the Salient but only a percentage are known. The rest are 'known unto God'. I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that in fact another cemetery, nearly as large as Tyne Cot, has the greater percentage of identified fallen. Would anyone know which it might be? Conversely, does anyone know where the smallest and most remote CWG cemetery on the Salient would be? Is it the NZ one just to the NE of Plugstreet Wood? Grateful for advice. Many thanks. Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 The largest number of identified Commonwealth burials is in Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery with 9869 identified burials plus 24 Unknowns. In addition there are 871 foreign identified casualties plus 12 unknowns. The smallest CWGC cemetery will take a little longer to work out assuming you are excluding churchyards & communal cemeteries with only one or two burials. I'll get back to you if one of our Belgian friends does not beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 Bethleem Farm East Cemetery at Mesen has only 43 burials. 8 of them are Unknowns. Strictly, perhaps it should be the R.E.Grave at Zillebeke with only 12 burials - all named. Tuileries British Cemetery has only 26 graves but has 69 Special Memorials to men who are believed to be buried there but whose graves were destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 Beating you Terry I should be a thunderlightning then :-). In my opinion the most remoted one is Rifle House Cemetery down in Plugstreet Wood. But what a nice walk. I would tend to say that indeed R.E. grave is the smallest strictly speaking. Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 Jacky And you are an hour ahead in Belgium !!!!! I agree about Rifle House. A very pleasant walk and well worth it at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 I think the other two there are as nice, Ploegsteert Wood and Toronto Avenue. Rifleman Ruben? Barnett, the 15 year old Jewish Rifle Brigade soldier in Riflehouse? may get even more attention now that news is out about John Condon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 I agree Paul. They are both magnificent locations - and both on the same walk. It is a pity CWGC have got Barnett's name wrong in their database. They have him as Robert Barnett rather than Reuben as on the headstone. I had meant to tell them of that after spotting it on my visit to these cemeteries last November but forgot! I'll get on to that right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 Yes , please do. And Prowse Point and Mud Corner? just up the always muddy lane are fine, probably my favorite area of the Salient, Ploegsteert Memorial is great too. The Lions crack me up, I do not know if IWGC had a sense of humor in doing it and doubt they did but I love the pissed off lion on one side, the benevolent one on the other. Our US visit goes there in April and we eat lunch that day at the cafe there, have never been inside. Something else neat about the Proswse area, there are a lot of pheasant there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 Lijessenthoek is certainly the most important cemetery in the Salient; smaller number of graves, but possibly slightly larger in physical size? More importantly it has almost every nationality from the Empire, every rank from Private to Major General, and some notable characters; including the only woman killed at Ypres. It was something I wanted to highlight in my book Walking The Salient; so I gave it some attention in the chapter on Poperinghe. The 'Cameo' series edited by Ted Smith and published by P&S also give it a lot of attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 As always I agree with Paul:-). Lijssenthoek is the place to visit. You got virtually everything there including the last 3 Americans buried in the Salient. Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 5 February , 2003 Share Posted 5 February , 2003 Paul Agree entirely Prowse Point, Mud Corner & the two in the woods - a perfect and usually uncrowded walk. The cafe is very good - or was last November - at least for the liquid kind of lunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 6 February , 2003 Share Posted 6 February , 2003 Any chance of some info on the only woman killed in the Salient mentioned by Paul.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 6 February , 2003 Share Posted 6 February , 2003 Bob. She is (was)Staff Nurse Nellie Spindler,QAIMNS, killed by shellfire whilst on attachment to the 44th CCS at Brandhoek on 21st August 1917 at the age of 26. She was from Wakefield,Yorkshire and is one of only two female casualties buried in Belgium. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham-McAdam Posted 6 February , 2003 Share Posted 6 February , 2003 It would be interesting to know, if it was easy for someone to find the figure, how many women casualties are buried in France. I was amazed (and pleased!) to hear there are so few in Belgium. I wonder because, as a teacher, one is always looking for ways of spreading the gender interest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 6 February , 2003 Share Posted 6 February , 2003 Graham There is a member of this forum, Jim Strawbridge, who is researching all female WW1 casualties. I am sure he will be able to come up with a figure very quickly as I know he has a CWGC list of all female war graves. Jim does not post very often and so an email might be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 6 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2003 Many thanks for all of the above replies which have been, as always, swift and helpful. On On! Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 6 February , 2003 Share Posted 6 February , 2003 Dave, Many thanks for the info on Nellie Spindler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 6 February , 2003 Share Posted 6 February , 2003 On the Somme the only graves of women I know of are at Gezaincourt, near Doullens; Canadian nurses killed in an aerial raid in May 1918. Terry will no doubt confirm how many. Otherwise there's a large number at Etaples, including the wife of a soldier being treated there who subsequently also died of wounds - sadly they are not buried side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 6 February , 2003 Share Posted 6 February , 2003 Paul There are no females listed in the register for Gezaincourt. Have we got the right cemetery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 6 February , 2003 Share Posted 6 February , 2003 Sorry Terry - I was thinking of Bagneux British Cemetery, Gezaincourt - at least I am sure that's the one along the railway line there, close to the site of the CCSs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt York Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 Besides, Nellie Spindler - Who is the other female casualty buried in Belgium? Ronnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 Paul There are three nurses of the Canadian Army Nursing Service buried in Bagneux - All Nursing Sisters and all killed in the air raid of 30.05.18. Eden Lyal PRINGLE III.4.25 A.MacPHERSON III.4.26 D.M.Y.BALDWIN III.4.24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 The thread goes on... Here are all the females buried in France/Belgium. Names can be supplied if you wish. France - Abbeville Communal Cemetery Extension (15) 9 killed in air raid - Aisne, Vauxbuin French National Cemetery (1) - Asnieres-sur-Oise CommunalCemetery, Val d'Oise (1) - Bagneux British Cemetery, Gezaincourt (3) - Boulogne Eastern Cemetery, Pas de Calais (1) - Bourges (St. Lazare) Cemetery, Cher (1) - Caudry British Cemetery, Nord (1) - Etaples Military Cemetery, Pas de Calais (20) One of these is particularly interesting. Grover was a civilian visiting her husband who was gravely ill and she died too. - Godewaersvelde British Cemetery, Nord (1) - Janval Cemetery, Dieppe (1) - Le Treport Military Cemetery, Seine-Maritime (1) - Les Baraques Mil. Cemetery, Sangatte, Pas de Calais (3) - Levallois-Perret Communal Cemetery, Paris (1) - Lille Southern Cemetery, Nord (1) - Lillers Communal Cemetery, Pas de Calais (1) - Longuenesse (St.Omer) Souvenir Cemetery - Pas de Calais (7) (one of these is Lilian Cooper who was the wife of a surveyor for the CWGC - one of the employees perks) - Malo-les-Baines Communal Cemetery, Somme (1) - Mazargues War Cemetery, Marseilles, Bouches-du- Rhone (3) - Mont Huon Mil.Cemetery, Le Treport, Seine-Maritime (3) - Sezanne Communal Cemetery, Haute-Marne (1) - St.Pol Brit.Cemetery,St.Pol-sur-Ternoise,Pas de Calais(1) - St.Sever Cemetery Extension, Rouen (6) - St.Sever Cemetery, Rouen (7) an interesting one here is Dame Lucy Branfoot who manned Lady Mabelle Eggerton's Coffee Stall at St.Sever Station. - St.Marie Cemetery, Le Havre (17) - Terlincthun Brit.Cemetery, Wimille, Pas de Calais (9) - Tourgeville Military Cemetery, Calvados (1) - Wimereux Communal Cemetery, Pas de Calais (13) Belgium - Belgrade Cemetery, Namur (1) - Lijssenthoek Mil.Cemetery,Poperinge,West Vlaanderen (1) Some of the civilians mentioned above are not official war graves. Thanks to Jim Strawbridge who helped me with this list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 To answer Sgt York The second female buried in Belgium is in Belgrade Cemetery, Namur (see above). Sister Elsie Mabel GLADSTONE A.R.R.C. QAIMNS Age 32 Died 24.01.19 of pneumonia Grave I.A.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 It's interesting to note that a lot of people think Godewaersvelde is in Belgian; one of the P&S books states that the nurse(?s) buried there 'died in Flanders'... but of course it is, and certainly was during 14-18, in France. The female casualty there died in the CCS during a bombing raid; and wasn't killed near Ypres like Nellie Spindler, making her the only female to fall at Ypres during the war, as we have previously discussed. Thanks for the list of nurses from Gezaincourt, Terry. I've seen their graves, but couldn't recall their names and I don't have the register for that cemetery. There's quite a few other medical personnel buried with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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