Wood family 5 brothers died

[Guest Paul Foster]

I am trying to trace the burial details of five brothers who died during the Great War: Joseph, Louis, Fred, Harry and Percy Wood. Part of their story is told on the Hellfire Corner website but sadly does not detail their exact deaths and burial details.

I tried to contact Hellfire Corner and the author of the article but both to no avail!

Their names are quite common and therefore difficult to identify by looking on the SDGW or on CWGC to be sure.

Any addtional information on them would also be gratefully received.

Kind regards

Paul

[grantowi]

Hi Paul,

Welcome to the forum

Do you have any more details about the WOOD brothers ?

Where they were born / lived / ages ?

The more info that you give us, the easier a search will be

Grant

[Jim Clay]

Hi Paul

Is this the 'Hellfire Corner' article?

I wonder if it's been discussed on the Forum before?

Jim

[grantowi]

Heres the family in the 1891 census

WOOD, Frederick L Head Married M 35 1856 Bricklayer Chatham Kent

WOOD, Charlotte Wife Married F 28 1863 Chatham Kent

WOOD, Richard Son Single M 11 1880 Exeter Devonshire

WOOD, Louis Son Single M 9 1882 Exeter Devonshire

WOOD, Joseph Son Single M 8 1883 Chatham Kent

WOOD, Arthur Son Single M 6 1885 Chatham Kent

FULLMAR, Alfred Stepson Single M 4 1887 Chatham Kent

WOOD, Eleanor Daughter Single F 1 (20M) 1890 Greenwich Kent

WOOD, Frederick Son Single M 0 (2M) 1891 Chatham Kent

Now we have birth location and ages, might be a bit easier :-)

Grant

[Jim Clay]

There was some previous discussion of the Wood brothers in this thread.

Jim

[Pighills]

Are you sure that's the right family - no Harry or Percy showing and they're not older as not in the 1891 census either. Could be younger though?

[grantowi]

Found a Harry WOOD, who died at Helles,

BUT

He's born in 1893

Hes with the RNVR, after enlisting with the Yorkshire Light Infantry in 1914.

Lived with his Dad, Frederick in Bradford

the age and location of the fathers address is wrong (according to the "Hellfire" page)

Grant

[grantowi]

From the ""Lady Lost Five Sons" Canada's War Mother and the Great War" page

http://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/ceris.htm

In 1901, Frederick and Charlotte still had twelve children to support: Louis (aged 19), Joseph (18), William (17), Arthur (15), Alfred (14), Ellen (12), Frederick (10), John (7), Herbert (6), Harry (4), Percy (2) and the infant Charles.

Grant

Ps - Kim, that IS the 1891 census

[Pighills]

ah, yes, I've put my lgasses on now

[shred]

Frederick Arthur Wood L/CPL G/439

Royal West Kent Regiment

6th Battalion

Enlisted Bromley Kent

Born Bromley Kent???

Died 03/07/1916

Source - SDGW

HTH

Garry

[shred]

The researcher at Hellfire states that "Louis lost at sea when HMS Hogue was torpedoed in September 1914."

Checked CWGC, SDGW and here.

No luck.

Garry

[grantowi]

I also checked the Registers of Seamen's Services on TNA site and the Royal Naval division list on FMP - not on either of them

Grant

[Tom Morgan]

I am trying to trace the burial details of five brothers who died during the Great War: Joseph, Louis, Fred, Harry and Percy Wood. Part of their story is told on the Hellfire Corner website but sadly does not detail their exact deaths and burial details.

I tried to contact Hellfire Corner and the author of the article but both to no avail!

Paul, I'm the owner of the Hellfire Corner website. I haven't received any email recently about the article you mention. However, I think you are getting more information here than I could have given you! If there is anything you think I might be able to help you with, let me know.

Tom

[grantowi]

Tom,

Is it possable to get hold of the guy who wrote the piece, to find out where he got his information an the brothers from ?

As you can see, we're having a spot of bother locating them :-(

Grant

Ps - neat site

[nhclark]

One of the problems with all this is indeed that the article is frustratingly short on detail. It is a fundamental of family history research that details and sources be quoted.

I've spent quite a bit of time trying to find out who these boys actually were. I haven't been 100% successful, but nevertheless I can have a stab three of the deaths.

Identification is made more difficult by the fact that several of the boys seem to have been known by their second name, rather than their first.

As far as I have them, these are their birth registrations:

Richard Thomas Wood, Jun 1880, St. Thomas registration district.

Lewis Robert Wood, December 1881, St. Thomas; (apparently known as "Louis")

Joseph James Wood, June 1883, Medway;

William Walter Wood, December 1884, Medway;

Arthur Abraham Wood, December 1885, Medway;

James Alfred FULLMAN (Chalotte's illegitimate son), September 1887, Medway; (apparently known as "Alf")

Frederick Francis Wood, March 1891, Medway; (on CWGC as "Francis")

Henry Herbert Wood, born September 1895, Belvedere, Kent (from CEF attestation paper); (apparently known as Herbert or "Bert")

Herbert Harry Wood, December 1896, Greenwich; (apparently known as Harry);

Peter Percy Wood, September 1899, Dartford; (apparently known as Percy).

I have not bothered with John or Charles to this point.

Looking at the detaills, or what there are of them, in the article, tentative identifications can be made for:

"Fred of the Royal West Kents on the Somme": died 7th October 1916, on CWGC as Francis Wood.

"Harry aged 18 on the Helles front"; died 4th June 1915, on CWGC as Harry Wood of the RNVR.

A positive identification can be made for:

"Percy aged 17 at Vimy"; died 5th May 1917, on Canadian Virtual War Memorial and CWGC as Peter Percy Wood.

The article seems to have an anomaly for Joseph. It infers that he was in the Navy, but died at Passchendaele. I have found a Navy service record for a Joseph James Wood, 194325, born Chatham, but the birth date does not match the registration above - perhaps the latter is incorrect.

I have not found matching Navy service records for William Walter or Arthur Abraham Wood. Perhaps I have their names wrong after all?

"Louis Wood" remains a complete mystery. As Grant has pointed out, he does not appear in any list of casualties that I have seen so far. A Robert Wood died on the Hogue, but his Navy service record has the wrong birthplace to be Louis.

Perhaps Louis served under an alias?

Clearly a lot more research needs to be done to substantiate the story as set out in the article.

Noel

[nhclark]

It's all here folks!

http://www.geocities.com/charlotte_susan_wood/cs03000.htm

Says that Louis Robert Wood was "No. 161053, Petty Officer (Stoker) Louis Robert Wood, HMS Hogue. " I'm not convinced because the service record attached to this number gives a birthplace of Bermondsey and a dob of 17 Mar 1872.

Joesph died 3rd November 1917.

Others as per my previous post.

Noel

[linge]

Noel

I agree with you about Louis Robert doesn't look right when checked against Navy records.

Unfortunately neither do Harry and Joseph when checked against RNVR records :

Leading Seaman, KW/590, Joseph Wood, RNVR, kia 3/11/1917 per Naval Records born 25/5/1887 Sheffield, next of kin home address mother Elizabeth Chryst, 22, Campbell Rd, Carbrook, Sheffield

Able Seaman, KP/726, Harry Wood, RNVR, kia 4/6/1915 per Naval Records born 5th April 1893 resided with father Frederick Wood, at 28, Lower Thomas St, Bradford. Father's address later: 26, Mary Gate, Manchester Road, Bradford

I've also checked the Canadian Shipping records Charlotte Wood went to Canada on 8th Sept 1911 to join her husband a bricklayer, in Strathcona Alberta, with her were:

Benjamin aged 17 (Benjamin Birt Wood Sept 1894 Greenwich)

Henry aged 15 (Herbert Harry Dec 1896 Greenwich)

Percy aged 13 (Peter Percy Sept 1899 Dartford)

Charles aged 1 (Charles Christopher Jun 1901 Dartford)

The Canadian papers are also confusing as they apperar to have a Henry Herbert Wood and a Henry Herbert Harry Wood both wth similar (but not identical) details

Only Peter seems confirmed.

Pam

[nhclark]

Pam,

Well done! I did not go far enough with my verifications! Usually I check the shipping records, but it all seemed so plausible that I did not do so in this case. There does not appear to be much doubt about a story that has, in one sense, been "verified" by the monarch himself. Just goes to show, doesn't it?

Henry Herbert Wood has two attestation papers for the CEF - one (6th January 1915) as Henry Herbert, birthplace Belvedere, the other (29th December 1915) as Henry Herbert Harry, birthplace Chatham. Same date of birth (23rd September 1895), father (1) Frederick L. Wood, father (2) F.L. Wood.

The first of these attestation papers has on it "landed 3(?)-1-1916" and the second is stamped "151st Overseas Batt. C.E.F."

Prima facie Henry Herbert is "Harry Wood", the Harry aged 4 in the 1901 census. Unless I'm very much mistaken, there never was another "Harry Wood" in the family. Henry Herbert survived the war, and the Harry Wood of Helles was not one of the sons of the family.

I did look at Benjamin Birt Wood (in fact h'e on my handwritten list but later crossed out), but I could not find a Canadian attestation paper that seemed to match. Benjamin is the "Burt" aged 6 in the 1901 census.

Having run into this situation several times in verifying so-called family histories, it would seem that the whole family needs to be checked out from square one - birth certificates first, and then service records. That's beyond my level of interest, but it would seem that it is necessary for this to be done to get the facts stright.

Mrs. Wood may well have lost five sons/stepsons in the war, but, at this stage, I would say that the details of the story are not verified.

Noel

[nhclark]

OK, I have gone though this with more information available. Taking the 1891 and 1901 censuses, and the passenger list information, Frederick Louis' children were, in order, together with their birth and death details, were:

Richard Thomas Wood, birth registered June 1880. Present in 1891 census, aged 11. Web-site states died 1900.

Lewis Robert Wood, December 1881, aged 9 in 1891. Fate unknown.

Joseph James Wood, June 1883, aged 8 in 1891. Fate unknown.

William Walter Wood, December 1884. Not at home in 1891. Aged 16 in 1901. Web-site states died before 1939.

Arthur Abraham Wood, December 1885, aged 6 in 1891. Web-site states died c. 1960.

James Alfred FULLMAN, September 1887. Aged 4 in 1891, aged 13 in 1901. Web-site states "survived war."

Ellen Beatrice Wood, September 1889.

Frederick Francis Wood, March 1891. Aged 2 months in 1891, and aged 10 in 1901. Fate unknown.

John Jacob Wood, September 1892. Aged 8 in 1901. Went to Canada in 1911. Web-site says died 24th May 1969.

Benjamin Birt Wood, September 1894. Aged 6 in 1901. Went to Canada 1911. Unable to find attestation paper. Not mentioned on web-site at all.

Herbert Henry Wood. In 1901 census as Harry Wood, aged 4. Attestation papers (2) give dob as 23 September 1895 (falsified age by one year?). Probably registered as Herbert Harry in December 1896. Web-site says died c. 1980.

Peter Percy Wood, September 1899. Aged 1 in 1901. Went to Canada 1911. Died Vimy 5th May 1917.

Charles Christopher Wood, June 1901. Went to Canada 1911. Web-site says died 1988.

13 children, 12 sons, one daughter.

Of the sons, (1) Richard died in 1900.

(2) Lewis Robert is unaccounted for. I do not think that he can have been the Robert Wood who died when the Hogue was torpedoed, as the service details do not fit.

(3) Joseph James Wood is unaccounted for. He definitely was not the Joseph Wood killed 3rd November 1917.

(4) William Walter suvived the war.

(5) Arthur Abraham survived the war.

(6) James Alfred Fullman survived the war.

(7) Frederick Francis is unaccounted for.

(8) John Jacob survived the war.

(9) I have not been able to find an enlistment of Benjamin Birt in Canada, and he is unaccounted for.

(10) "Harry Wood" enlisted twice in the CEF, once as Henry Herbert Wood, and once as Henry Herbert Harry Wood. He survived the war. "Harry" was one and the same as Herbert Henry/Henry Herbert and, prima facie, it seems that there never was another son named "Harry Wood.

(11) Peter Percy Wood. Killed on 5th May 1917.

(12) Charles Christopher Wood. Survived the war.

Putting it all together:

Peter Percy definitely died in WW1.

Lewis Robert, Joseph James, Frederick Francis, and Benjamin Birt are unaccounted for.

The alleged deaths of Joseph and Harry cannot be substantiated.

The details of the story do not stand up.

Noel

[Guest Paul Foster]

OK, I have gone though this with more information available. Taking the 1891 and 1901 censuses, and the passenger list information, Frederick Louis' children were, in order, together with their birth and death details, were:

Richard Thomas Wood, birth registered June 1880. Present in 1891 census, aged 11. Web-site states died 1900.

Lewis Robert Wood, December 1881, aged 9 in 1891. Fate unknown.

Joseph James Wood, June 1883, aged 8 in 1891. Fate unknown.

William Walter Wood, December 1884. Not at home in 1891. Aged 16 in 1901. Web-site states died before 1939.

Arthur Abraham Wood, December 1885, aged 6 in 1891. Web-site states died c. 1960.

James Alfred FULLMAN, September 1887. Aged 4 in 1891, aged 13 in 1901. Web-site states "survived war."

Ellen Beatrice Wood, September 1889.

Frederick Francis Wood, March 1891. Aged 2 months in 1891, and aged 10 in 1901. Fate unknown.

John Jacob Wood, September 1892. Aged 8 in 1901. Went to Canada in 1911. Web-site says died 24th May 1969.

Benjamin Birt Wood, September 1894. Aged 6 in 1901. Went to Canada 1911. Unable to find attestation paper. Not mentioned on web-site at all.

Herbert Henry Wood. In 1901 census as Harry Wood, aged 4. Attestation papers (2) give dob as 23 September 1895 (falsified age by one year?). Probably registered as Herbert Harry in December 1896. Web-site says died c. 1980.

Peter Percy Wood, September 1899. Aged 1 in 1901. Went to Canada 1911. Died Vimy 5th May 1917.

Charles Christopher Wood, June 1901. Went to Canada 1911. Web-site says died 1988.

13 children, 12 sons, one daughter.

Of the sons, (1) Richard died in 1900.

(2) Lewis Robert is unaccounted for. I do not think that he can have been the Robert Wood who died when the Hogue was torpedoed, as the service details do not fit.

(3) Joseph James Wood is unaccounted for. He definitely was not the Joseph Wood killed 3rd November 1917.

(4) William Walter suvived the war.

(5) Arthur Abraham survived the war.

(6) James Alfred Fullman survived the war.

(7) Frederick Francis is unaccounted for.

(8) John Jacob survived the war.

(9) I have not been able to find an enlistment of Benjamin Birt in Canada, and he is unaccounted for.

(10) "Harry Wood" enlisted twice in the CEF, once as Henry Herbert Wood, and once as Henry Herbert Harry Wood. He survived the war. "Harry" was one and the same as Herbert Henry/Henry Herbert and, prima facie, it seems that there never was another son named "Harry Wood.

(11) Peter Percy Wood. Killed on 5th May 1917.

(12) Charles Christopher Wood. Survived the war.

Putting it all together:

Peter Percy definitely died in WW1.

Lewis Robert, Joseph James, Frederick Francis, and Benjamin Birt are unaccounted for.

The alleged deaths of Joseph and Harry cannot be substantiated.

The details of the story do not stand up.

Noel

Hi everyone

Many thanks for your help with my searching. Sorry not to have replied individually over the past couple of days but have been out of circulation and without the interne - felt as if my right arm had been cut off.

All the information you have supplied is great and thanks so much for it.

Paul

[grantowi]

Has anyone checked the 1901 census yet ?

any chance of posting it ?

Grant

[Tom Morgan]

Tom,

Is it possable to get hold of the guy who wrote the piece, to find out where he got his information an the brothers from ?

As you can see, we're having a spot of bother locating them :-(

Grant

Ps - neat site

Grant - the author of the article, Ceris Schrader, is a woman. There's an email link to her at the end of the article but I haven't needed to use it for some time. If Hellfire Corner authors change their email addresses and don't tell me, then I lose contact.

The name is an unusual one though, and if you do a Google search for that name, you'll come up with other references to her Great War writings. Some of these other websites may have more up-to-date email addresses for Ceris.

Tom

[nhclark]

Has anyone checked the 1901 census yet ?

any chance of posting it ?

Grant

Grant, yes I did. Here it is for you.

Noel

[nhclark]

Grant - the author of the article, Ceris Schrader, is a woman. There's an email link to her at the end of the article but I haven't needed to use it for some time. If Hellfire Corner authors change their email addresses and don't tell me, then I lose contact.

The name is an unusual one though, and if you do a Google search for that name, you'll come up with other references to her Great War writings. Some of these other websites may have more up-to-date email addresses for Ceris.

Tom

I very much doubt that the author has done any independent research at all. She has simply prepared a precis of what has been written by others.

If a story is repeated often enough, it becomes accepted with little question. Even if it is not wholly true.

With the deluge of information now available to us on the internet, we are now able to search and check in a matter of minutes what, a few years ago, would have taken years to do and in many cases could not have been done at all.

My feeling is that Mrs. Wood probably did lose five sons in the First World War. I doubt that she would have met Edward VIII and received a silver medal if her story had not been verifiable and verified. However, so far, the story as written appears to have several holes in it, and there appears to be confusion as to who died and when.

I'm surprised that no Canadian member of the Forum hasn't come to our rescue on this one - I would have thought that the Wood story could verified almost instantly by Canadian authorities. Or, alternately, debunked.

Noel

[grantowi]

Noel,

Cheers for the census, its a bit too small for my aging eyes to make out - do the names, ages and birth locations agree with the 1891 version ? looks like there is a William who wasnt on the 1891

The author must have done some research - she has a photo of where Mrs WOOD was born - for the piece, If it was me, i'd at least check the basics before signing my name to it.

As you say, for her to have an audience with the King, there must be some merit to it - be nice to get to the bottom of it

Grant