Essex drill halls - seeking information, please

[stiletto_33853]

Sorrell are the estate agents trying to sell the property, but I think that it has been up for sale now some time Gwyn, would you like an enquiry as to the price being asked???

Andy

[auchonvillerssomme]

I tried both the RAF and Army Recruiting Offices in Southend, the RAF wanted me to finish my apprenticeship, the Army weren't bothered so I joined the Army.

Mick

[Dragon]

It's £975k, I believe.

I've traced planning applications and refusals on this property previously. I don't think it is a troublefree site to develop, especially as the Prittlewell Area Conservation Appraisal rates it as 'positive', which means it contributes positively to the street scene.

We're planning to have a Drill Halls at Risk page on the website, and this is another to add to the list.

Gwyn

[aliecoco]

Hi Gwyn,

I am an Essex girl! Anything more on Ongar? One of my best mates lives close by, and should pop round to see her this week, do you want me to take any pics on my mobile? Sorry if I have missed that some one has already offered to help out for Ongar, but I am a bit tired.

Alie.

[Dragon]

Thank you very much for the offer, Alie. I'm afraid at the moment I don't know where the drill hall in Ongar was/is. I've tried all the avenues I can think of and haven't got anywhere.

In one of the earlier posts I gave a link to a photo. That's all I can do. Sorry.

Gwyn

[aliecoco]

Hi Gwyn,

Spotted your link this morning, I was tired last night, I think! Well as I say I may make a visit this week.

Alie.

[Twiglet]

I'll send the link of the photo of the Ongar drill hall to my Mum, she should know what it is now - because I'm pretty sure it hasn't been a hall of sorts for ages.

It's definitely off the High Street.

I sent the picture to my brother also, he seems to think it's now the Co-op. The church in the background he believes is St Martins.

[Dragon]

Thank you very much, Twiglet.

I'd got as far as trying to tie it in with other buildings (the church) and street scene, using Live Maps, but not knowing the town, and having no other information as to possible area, I had to give up, feeling quite depressed to fail.

A positive identification would be great, then maybe we'll be able to ask for a photo. I don't like thinking of other people wandering the streets on a futile pursuit. I waste enough of my own time doing that.

Gwyn

[Twiglet]

Dragon - If Mum doesn't remember what it is now, I can always shoot over there one night after work for you and take some photos, I'm not that far from Ongar.

[Dragon]

Thank you, Twiglet. Both you and Alie have offered to help and I'm very grateful.

I'm very sorry not to be able to be more specific about the address.

There isn't any hurry, unless there are bulldozers at the door, because I've got other things on the go as well.

Cheers

Gwyn

[Twiglet]

Gwyn - Dad nipped over to Ongar last night to check things out for you. Apparently the buildings are still in situ, as per the photograph, only the drill hall is now called 'Wren House'.

He said that it looked like it had been converted into some sort of house, only the downstairs windows had tatty curtains up, suggesting that it's not lived in at the moment. However, the upstairs window had been propped open.

Instead of two steps leading to the front door, it now has 3 brick steps. Inevitably, the lovely old lamp has gone.

They both remember it being a sweet shop - that would have been about 25 years ago, when they first moved to the area.

If you like, we can take some photos for you at the weekend if Alie doesn't get there before us! Let us know.

Hope this helps,

Twiglet (Janice)

PS - Ongar is definitely in Essex, not Hertfordshire as the old photo says!

[Dragon]

That's lovely news, Janice! Thank you! Please pass on our thanks to your dad.

I must say that if I'd just seen the photo on the Mary Evans Picture Library site, and not noticed the sign board, I'd have just thought it was a shop. Is there a hall part of it?

Many drill halls have residential accommodation attached. It's usually where a retired sergeant instructor would live with his family if he had one, doing a bit of caretaking and training in exchange for his home.

Can you give me the exact location please, when it's convenient? I'll look at it as a birdseye view on MS Live Maps (http://maps.live.com - a fantastic product). I also need to add the address and current use to the database. I can certainly add that it is remembered as a sweet shop.

Huge thanks again.

Gwyn

PS re your PS. We've used the counties (and spellings) which were in use prior to 1914. I find it confusing at times, as some places appear in more than one county. Depending on which directories you read, Bishop's Stortford is another that's in both Hertfordshire and Essex. I put it in Hertfordshire when I took its photo for the website.

[Twiglet]

Will do -

There's another picture here - it says the town sign appears outside Wren House, but to me, Wren House is to the left of that sign, as it's clearly the same building as the one in the old b&w photo. That's if Dad has the correct name of the building, of course.

For a map - try St Martin's Church, Ongar as the location. The church location comes up located behind "Shackletons", which is off the High Street.

That's as close as I can get to an address, although strangely enough there is a company listed on the net address 'Wren Hall' 152a High Street - here, go to their photo gallery, first picture - could that be the hall from the side view? The picture shows a churchyard in the foreground, which would certainly fit.

If it can wait till the weekend, I'll scoot over there and take some more photos for you.

As for the PS - it's the same with the census records, one minute my Gt Nan is born in Norfolk, then Northampton, then London - very confusing!

[Dragon]

Yes, the building to the left of the sign is the same as the one in the old photo.

Following what you said, I found the church on Live Search maps and then opened a birdseye view. The building which you suggest is Wren Hall in the business's photo gallery is very clearly shown on the other side of the church's graveyard and a little road. It's distinctive. Then I rotated the camera angle so I was looking directly at the church door with that white hall on the left hand side of the picture. Zooming right in on it, you can see the shop which has the town sign outside it (as in the newspaper's photo) and then an alley and then, on the corner, the shop in the old photo. The bow window is very clear, with the single window above it, with the door to the right.

Therefore, it looks very much to me as if the premises facing towards High Street - with the bow window and the door - were originally possibly the residential part of the DH, adjacent to the hall. This is reinforced by the sign on the old photo which clearly says drill hall. They're part of the same plot, looking at the birdseye view. I suppose it's possible that a small shop adjoined the caretaker-sergeant's premises. I don't know where the hall would be entered, though the birdseye view seems to show a gateway between the two premises. I have come across a drill hall where the hall was entered by going through the post office and out at the back.

What I'm going to do next is look on the old maps website and compare the footprints of the buildings.

Edit. Looking at the old maps, it is there in 1897 and 1923, but 1881 is not clear. Peering at the large scale maps (which aren't enlargable) with my most magnifying reading glasses, I am pretty sure that the 1896 map labels it 'drill hall'.

I know birdseye and aerial views aren't as good as being there, but I know some local authorities use these tools for their HER (Historic Enviroment Record) so what's good enough for them..... I'm also going to find Essex's HER. (Edit: No further information there, nor on ArchSearch.)

Thank you ever so much for your detective work. I'm really grateful to you and Alie and your family for the interest. It makes it worthwhile

Gwyn

Edited 9 September , 2008 by Dragon

[Twiglet]

No problem, you're welcome. If there's anything further I can do to help, just holler.

[Dragon]

Well, some photos for the website would be lovely! It would be good to have the same view as in the old photo and a view of the hall, plus any interesting features.

I feel a bit awkward as both you and Alie have offered.

Gwyn

[aliecoco]

Hi Gwyn and Janice,

No need to feel awkward Gwyn, I think Janice has provided much more information that I ever could. Plus my pics would not of been so good anyway, I think. I'll leave it for Janice, if thats ok? - but in the meantime just shout if you need any further Essex info, in the future. Anyway Gwyn, my poetry course starts next month, so I may well be bothering you for help with that!

Alie.

[Dragon]

Well, thank you, Alie. It makes such an unseen difference when people take an interest. Thanks also to Janice, Andy and Adrian.

You're very welcome to get in touch about the poetry, but I'm not very confident I'd be of much use! My brain is like a helium-filled balloon these days. I catch sight of it occasionally, tug its string and it shoots tantalisingly off somewhere on its own. I'm in a complete blind panic about my own courses at the moment and I have serious writer's block.

Gwyn