Can anyone decipher a couple of things on this letter?

[Twiglet]

First image, second line, last word; 'for good work done at ?' Second image - very top. First something something - BEF, is that British Expeditionary Forces?

Thanks in anticipation and sorry for the size!

[Greyhound]

Second one is 1st Casualty Clearing Station.

First one - looks as if the right-hand edge is missing or out of shot as you would expect to see MC or MM on the first line, where it just has M. So the word you're looking for ... might be Messines? Probably other possibilities though.

[MelPack]

Twiglet

It looks like 1st Casualty Clearing Station, British Expeditionary force and Messines.

Regards

Mel

[Twiglet]

He's buried in Adinkerke, so is Messines a place, or a battle?

Is a clearing station a field hospital? Would it have been near where he was wounded?

So many questions, and I know I can rely on you wonderful people to help - that's why I love this site!

[stevem49]

Adinkerke Mil Cemetery is on the coast so I doubt he would have been moved from Messines.

It is now next to a great big tobacco and booze shop but is rarely visited. I doubt that the majority of the thousands who visit the shop even see the cemetery.

If you go to www.ypressalient.co.uk - cwgc - Adinkerke - there are photos of the cemetery.

I think he may have been awarded a bar to his MM at Messines (June 1917) and then his unit was in the Nieupoort area during 3rd Ypres. Do you have a unit for him?

sm

[rflory]

As he was a Private the decoration would most likely be the MM. Regards, Dick Flory

[AlanCurragh]

Messines is best known for the Messines Ridge, the subject of a successful assault on 7th June 1917. Messines itself is the village at the centre of the ridge.

Alan

[MelPack]

CWGC info on the cemetery:

From June to November 1917 the Commonwealth XV Corps held the front from the Belgian coast to St. Georges. The 24th and 39th Casualty Clearing Stations were posted at Oosthoek (between Adinkerke and Furnes) from July to November, and the 1st Canadian Casualty Clearing Station was at Adinkerke for a short time in June

Messines:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Messines

[Twiglet]

Dick - he did indeed get the MM, and bar.

Alan - he died 2 hours after midnight, at the clearing station. I've got that part of the letter if anyone wants to see it.

[MelPack]

The second letter indicates that he was awrded a Bar to his MM (for Messines) but the CWGC only has a MM.

[Twiglet]

Mel, I've got his medal card - it does say MM & bar.

This is him, the other photo is his daughter.

[MelPack]

Sorry, that was the point that I was making - the CWGC entry is inaccurate. If you contact Terry D with the evidence, he can arrange for it to be rectified in due course.

[Twiglet]

Hi Mel - No need to apologise, my misunderstanding. Terry D on here? Or on CWGC?

[MelPack]

Terry Denham on the Board - drop him a PM and have a look at the work in the non commemoration sub forum of Cemeteries.

Regards

Mel

[Twiglet]

Crikey, so much to take in. Thanks so much all.

Steve - does Z/1 TM By - RGA help? Bombardier (Private?) no 20382.

So, if I've got this right, he did something to warrent the MM in the Battle of Messines in 1917, but didn't die in the battle as he died on 30/8/1917.

I think the bar was awarded posthumously (top left, says 17.9.17 - 68/121/256 97829)

[MelPack]

Twiglet

As you probably already know the 1st TMB was a Trench Mortar Battery of the 1st Division.

The promulgation date of 14/9/16 for the first MM indicates that it was awarded for an act during the first phase of the Somme.

regards

Mel

[Twiglet]

Thanks Mel - I only got the copies of the two letters today, so it's great to put some more information to his name.

I've also emailed Terry, as you suggested.

I've just remembered, I do have copies of when he got the medal/bar via the London Gazette, sadly it doesn't actually mention why. Two steps forward, one step back!

[Stebie9173]

I'll just add some mystery to events!

Between the 1st August 1917 and the 22nd October 1917, the whole of 1st Division* were in "quarantine" at Le Clipon Camp near Dunkerque in training for Operation Hush, an amphibious assault on the Belgian Coast, that was eventually scrapped.

* There may have been some exceptions.

Adinkerke is between Nieuport and Dunkirk, housing the 1st Canadian Casualty Clearing station, and attached burial ground.

Furnes (also known as Veurne) is also in the same area, with Oostheok just west of Furnes.

Having said that the 1st Division was in secure camp for two months, it appears that Le Clipon was WEST of Dunkerque (near the modern ferryport), which seems a fair way away from Adinkerke.

What does William's Soldiers Died entry state - Died of Wounds, or Died (i.e. accidental). I suspect that there may have been some accident with the Trench Mortar battery whilst in training.

Perhaps a delve in the war diary might mention an accident:

WO Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Division within WO Records of the Armed Forces from commands, headquarters, regiments and corps

WO 95 War Office: First World War and Army of Occupation War Diaries

Subseries within WO 95 PART I: FRANCE, BELGIUM AND GERMANY

Subsubseries within WO 95 1 DIVISION

WO 95/1251 1 Division

Record Summary

Scope and content Divisional Trench Mortar Batteries

Covering dates 1917 July - 1919 July

Availability Open Document, Open Description, Normal Closure before FOI Act: 30 years

Held by The National Archives, Kew

See: http://www.1914-1918.net/trenchmortars.htm re Trench Mortar Batteries.

Here is the page of the 1st Canadian Casualty Clearing Station war Diary for the end of August 1917:

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e061/e001509394.jpg

An article on the proposed landings:

http://www.ijnhonline.org/volume1_number1_...ng_1917.doc.htm

Steve.

P.S. Though the "3 month rule of thumb" often holds sway, I have seen a good number of the September 1916 MMs being awarded for much earlier actions, e.g. to 1915.

[Stebie9173]

I see there is another man of the same battery buried in the Cemetery:

Name: NEILL

Initials: J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Gunner

Regiment/Service: Royal Garrison Artillery

Unit Text: 1st Trench Mortar Bty.

Age: 23

Date of Death: 30/08/1917

Service No: 3373

Additional information: Son of John and Mary O'Neill, of Ballybrack, Kilmacthomas, Co. Waterford.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: D. I.

Cemetery: ADINKERKE MILITARY CEMETERY

Steve.

[Myrtle]

Steve

According to SDGW both Tallowin and Neill died of wounds.

Myrtle

[Stebie9173]

William Tallowin's MM entries in the Gazette in case you need the links:

LG 14-9-1916

20382 Gunner W. E. Talloway, R.G.A.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...;exact=Talloway

LG 17-9-1917

MILITARY MEDAL AWARDS.

CORRECTIONS.

London Gazette dated 14th September, 1916.

For 20382 Gnr. W. E. Talloway, R.G.A.,

Read 20382 Gnr. W. E. T'allowin, R.G.A.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...amp;exact=20382

LG 17-9-1917

His Majesty the KING has been graciouslypleased to approve of the award of a Bar to the Military Medal to the undermentioned Non-commissioned Officers and Men:

7915 Cpl. J. H. D'avies, R.E. (Swansea).

1/8766 Pte. J. Hosford, R. Mun. Fus. (Cork).

613628 Pte. A. E. Jennings, Lond. R. (Hoxton).

20382 Bomdr. W. E. Tallowin, R.G.A. (Hackney Wick).

33 Pte. G. W. West, R. W. Kent R. (Farningham).

(M.M.'s gazetted 14th September, 19I6.)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...amp;exact=20382

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

I'm a little concerned that 1st Division were not involved at Messines in June 1917 (!), so I've had a closer look at some of the available MM dates for the Gazette of 17-9-1917.

Royal Berkshire Regiment MMs from Gazette issue 17-9-1917:

1st Battalion

7860 Cpl. A. Hainge, R. Berks. R (Tunbridge Wells).

2nd Battalion

37889 Cpl. H. Grice, R. Berk. R (Loughborough).

37435 Pte. E. Adams, R. Berk. R (St. Albans).

19914 Pte (actg Cpl). J. W. Wheeler, R. Berkshire R (Reading).

8990 Pte. T. Ranscombe, R. Berks. R (Maidenhead).

27442 Pte. A. E. Barke, R. Berk. R (Hornsey).

24529 Pte. A. Knight, R. Berks. R (Sonning).

5th Battalion

5730 Cpl. A. W. H. Doble, R. Berks. R. (Leyton). (BAR)

5374 Cpl. (A./Sjt.) C. E. Minchin, R. Berks. R. (Hungerford). (BAR)

18667 Cpl. G. Coulton, R. Berks. R (Hammersmith)

15674 Sjt. E. Sivier, R. Berks. R (Salisbury).

11793 Pte (L/C). H. Watling, R. Berks. R (Gt. Moulton).

24045 Pte (L/C). F. Varney, R. Berks. R (Stanford-in-the-Vale).

Unknown battalion

12784 Pte. F. Belcher, B. Berks. B. (Farringdon). (BAR)

The Royal Berkshire Regiment War Diaries are online, so their MMs can often be found there:

2nd Royal Berkshire

Monday 30th July 1917

France, IN THE FIELD SHEET 28 1/40,000 MAP REF SHEET 28 N.W.

Battalion moved to HALFWAY HOUSE tonight prior to taking part in attack on Enemy's Lines.

Admissions to Hospital during month 38 O.R.

Discharges from Hospital during month 33 O.R.

Honours and Awards.

The undermentioned Officers, NCOs and Men were awarded Military Medals and Parchment Certificates for Gallantry and Devotion to Duty during the Raid on the German Trenches near HOOGE on the night of 10/11th July 1917.

Military Medal.

No 19914 A/Corporal J. WHEELER

No 27442 Pte A.E. BARKE

No 37889 Corpl H. GRICE

No 8990 Pte T. RANSCOMBE

No 202791 Pte R.N. COLEMAN.

No 24529 Pte A. KNIGHT

No 37435 Pte E. ADAMS[/quote ]

Also:

5th Royal Berkshire

Monday 13th August 1917

France, Cambrai Rd Sector

Relieved in Front line trenches by the 9th ESSEX Regt and after relief marched to billets in ACHICOURT, occupying same very comfortable billets as before.

Draft of 35 other ranks arrived all of Royal Berkshire Regt.

Decorations :-

H.M. The King of the Belgians presented the following decoration to Lt. M.B. BEATTIE - "CHEVALIER de C' order de la COURONNE."

Following decoration awarded for gallantry during operations in HOOK Tr. July 19 - 24.

Bars to Military Medal :-

5374 L/Sergt MINCHIN

8730 Corpl DOBLE

Military Medals

11799 L/Cpl WATLING S.

34045 " VARNEY F.

18067 Cpl COULTON G.

15674 Sergt SIEVIER E.[/quote ]

----

Also

8717 Cpl. F. Aveling, Bedf. R. '(Bromley).

26 Jul 1917

Battalion in the Line at ZILLEBEKE and Reserve at CHATEAU SEGARD.

Major R.O.Wynne, D.S.O. proceeded to 30th Division as Liaison Officer.

Lt.Colonel C.H.de.St.P.BUNBURY proceeded to Trenches to Command Battalion.

At 5 p.m. the 2nd Bn.Yorkshire Regiment and 18th Bn.Manchester Regiment carried out a raid in front of this Sector with successful results.

No.8718 Cpl.F.Aveling, 2nd Bn.Bedfordshire Regiment, awarded the Military Medal for gallantry in this raid.[/quote ]

From my own research there is:

9624 Sjt. B. Cope, North'n R (Peterborough).

Sgt. Benjamin Cope was "the man that swam the Yser" in our local papers, and his MM was awarded for the Battle of the Dunes on 10th July 1917.

A small sample, but all these point to July 1917 as a date of the award of his Bar to the M.M. ?

I'm starting to suspect that William Tallowin's Bar to the MM refers to the Battle of the Dunes on 10-7-1917...

Steve.

[Twiglet]

Thanks for all the replies and links.

Copy of the letter above states that he died of wounds all over his body and "did not suffer, long". He was brought in around midnight, and died 2 hours later.

Interesting that my Gt Uncle and the other chap, Neill died on the same day.

[Twiglet]

Just got the other letter into some sort of of order - this might help;

been awarded bar to his M for good work done at Messi... and I am sorry that he is not here that I might congratulate him. I had recommended him for another bar which however will not be granted now his grave is in the cemetery at Adinkerke in Belgium and before we left I had a cross put upon his ...... by our .... ever be of any assistance to you I would be only be too pleased to do anything in my power to help you in any matter.

Yours faithfully

JA Bought Lt RFA??

There is also a snippet of letter -

last June recommended his Military Medal .... good service.

So, do you think he did get a bar (as written on his medal card above), then was recommended for another bar, or did he not get the original bar?

[MelPack]

Twiglet

This is turning into a fascinating story.

I accept Steve's point that the 1st Division was not involved at Messines but the letter does suggest Messines and the first five letters of Messi are certainly consistent with that.

I am wondering if the Divisional HTMB was temporarily attached to another Division for Messines?

The balance of the letter that you have posted suggests that your man was to be recommended for a second Bar.

Part of the rubric of the MM was that it could not be awarded posthumously ie if the act of bravery resulted in death then no award would be made.

The inference that I draw is that the second bar was to be recommended for an action that resulted in his death.

We now know that SDGW records DOW, we also know that the 1st Division was out of the line and involved in training for Operation Hush.

Steve's suggestion of an accident looked promising but the blight is DOW and if the fatal wounds were caused by an accident eg fire with munitions and involved an act of bravery then this would not preclude a recommendation for the Albert Medal as distinct from a further Bar to the MM.

My inference is that the HTMB was attached and in action somewhere in the Ypres salient.

Just a few speculative thoughts.

Regards

Mel