greenie48 Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 My Grandad R24065 Rifleman Thomas E Beagles "D" Company 2nd Batt KRRC was taken prisoner on 10th July 1917 at Nieuport. I would like to get a greater understanding of what went on. Has anyone a copy of the original war diaries or the regiment annals/chronicles, maps which might help? I have looked at the transcription of the War Diaries on the Long Long Trail but am not sure if this is complete.I have been digging around in the forum under Strandfest and came up with the 2nd Brigade Report of Operations for July 10th 1917 which refers to a secret map attached but I don't have the map. I have read the report of the Northants which gives quite a bit of info from this action . According to the KRRC war diary extract on the 3rd theJuly 2nd Batt KRRC took over as support battalion in Nieuport Bains at battle strength only the rest were in Ostdunkerque Bains. On the 4th July they took over the verymost left hand sector of the Western front. A company on the left B on the right and his company D in support. Is it fair to assume that this was the deployment on the fateful day and would they have been at full strength? When I was young and I talked to my Grandad about the war . He told me that he had been very lucky because they were moving up to the front through some woods when they found themselves surrounded by the enemy and had to give themselves up. He said if it hadn't been for that he would have been killed. This doesn't stack up since there was a wood in Nieuport Bains on the south of the river Yser but as far as I know once the Germans attacked 2nd Brigade they stopped on the N of the Yser or did they send out patrols? Were any of 2nd KRRC held in reserve ? Is it credible or did he just not want to talk about it? I am fortunate to have his Paybook,Medals, the communication of 26th Oct 1917 to his mother saying he had been captured. This gives the date he started in the field beg 1917 and date of attestation 11th May 1916 is this his joining up date? Thanks Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 I don't have much extra on the battle apart from the extracts I have already posted, Phillip. There certainly weren't any trees at Nieuport, just the dunes. 2nd Brigade was cut-off from the rest of the Army by the Yser river, with few bridges back to safety. Once the Germans had destroyed those bridges, the Brigades fate was sealed long before they were rounded up. The Northamptons were reasonably "fortunate" in the fact that a lot of leave had been granted, meaning that although all bar half a dozen men of the battalion were killed or captured, there was some of the battalion left to rebuild from. It was also usual to hold 10% of the battalion in Reserve (known as "Transport Lines") to rebuild the battalion in case of calamity. Attestation was the process of enlisting in the Army. By 1916 there were three methods of this happening. 1) Turning up to the Recruiting Office and volunteering. By 1916, this was mainly from young lads reaching the ages of 17 (for home service) or 19 (for overseas service) 2) Men who had attested under the "Derby Scheme" in late 1915, were called up by Groups that depended on their family and job status. 3) Direct conscription of men, again dependent on age/family/job. Men could appeal for a delay in call up. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 Thomas Eason Beagles service records are available in the "Pension" records, available on Ancestry or at the National Archives. (Series WO364). Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 A quick summary of said WO364 records: Rifleman Thomas Eason Beagles R/24065 King's Royal Rifle Corps Enlisted at Manchester on 16th November 1915, probably under the Derby Scheme. Called up 11th May 1916 at Manchester, age 18 years, 9 months. Posted to 19th (Reserve) Battalion K.R.R.C., possibly in "A" Company. Embarked to France, 18th August 1916. Disembarked in France, 19th August 1916. Joined 1st Infantry Base Depot, 29th August 1916. Posted to ?? Battalion, K.R.R.C., 6th September 1916. (Not necessarily 2nd Battalion - could by "B" Company, 17th Battalion which is referred to on his Regimental Conduct Sheet) Admitted to 110th Field Ambulance, "Inflammation of connective tissue", 5th October 1916. Admitted to 133rd Field Ambulance, same, 12th October 1916. Admitted to 3rd Australian General Hospital, same, 14th October 1916. Admitted to 2nd Australian General Hospital, same, 16th October 1916. Evacuated to England from Boulogne aboard Hospital Ship "St Denis", 19th October 1916. Admitted to Northamptonshire War Hospital, Duston, suffering from an abscess on the thigh from 20th October to 12th December 1916. Discharged to duty. Embarked to France from Southampton, 30th January 1917. Disembarked at Havre, 31st January 1917. Joined 1st Infantry Base Depot, 31st January 1917. Posted to 1st Battalion, K.R.R.C., 31st January 1917. Joined 2nd Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps, 22nd February 1917. Missing, 10th July 1917. Prisoner of war at Limburg, 15th July 1917. (Limburg was a reception camp - he may have been held elsewhere) Transferred to Class Z Reserve, 27th February 1919. Discharged from class Z Reserve, 31st March 1920. Suffered heart trouble caused by service. Previously employed by Isaac Bentley & Co Limited, Trafford Park, Manchester. Next of kin: Father, 15 Ellesmere Street, Moss Side, Manchester Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenie48 Posted 16 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2007 Steve Thanks for very much for the information and such a quick response. The pension record certainly fills in the gaps. As for the Battle of the Dunes there is a wood on the map on the south of the Yser but I cannot believe the Germans would have gone that far. He must have been caught on the other side of the river with the rest. He was a prisoner at Hammelberg and I have various post cards of the camp with photos of fellow inmates. I also have the description of their liberation via Switzerland and France. If anyone has got any further information on the Strandfest/Nieuport battle or maps it would be very welcome. Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 I suspect that you have checked this topic out already, but just in case: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...c=41843&st= Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenie48 Posted 16 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2007 Steve Yes I had found that thread which is certainly pretty detailed. There are also photos in some other threads which give a good idea of the conditions including POWs. Maybe someone will be able to provide me with some of the KRRC documents/maps to complete the picture. Thanks once again Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 24 September , 2008 Share Posted 24 September , 2008 Philip, I've e-mailed you scans of all the relevant pages from the 1917 KRRC Chronicle - the detailed article Action At Nieuport Bains by Lt Col Butler is very interesting but doesn't mention Rfn Beagles in person. There's also a trench sketch map - useful, but not very detailed and showing no woods I'm afraid. Can you let me know that you've received it all successfully? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 1 October , 2008 Share Posted 1 October , 2008 Philip, I've e-mailed you scans ... can you let me know that you've received it all successfully? Cheers, Mark Philip, Got your PM - glad it all arrived safe at your end! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Philip, There's also a trench sketch map - useful, but not very detailed and showing no woods I'm afraid. Cheers, Mark Folks, I've just found a much better trench map extract on croonaert's website: Paths of Glory - Nieupoort July 1917 Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenie48 Posted 14 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 October , 2008 Folks, I've just found a much better trench map extract on croonaert's website: Paths of Glory - Nieupoort July 1917 Cheers, Mark Thanks Mark. The info you sent was excellent and your trench map was really useful Cheers Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 15 October , 2008 Share Posted 15 October , 2008 Thanks Mark. The info you sent was excellent and your trench map was really useful Cheers Philip Philip - a pleasure! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 9 November , 2008 Share Posted 9 November , 2008 If you are still around, Philip, here is Rifleman Beagles being reported as Missing on the Official Casualty lists in an enormous list of Missing men from the battle of the Dunes (the Northamptons list has 540 men in it. I haven't counted the men on this one!) The List is the part of Daily List of 10-8-1917, part of the Weeks lists published on 14-8-1917. A full list is available for interested parties! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 9 November , 2008 Share Posted 9 November , 2008 He also appears in the Daily List of 28-9-1917 (published 2-10-1917) under the heading "Previously Reported Missing, now Reported Prisoners of War in German Hands" Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 10 November , 2008 Share Posted 10 November , 2008 A big THANK YOU to Steve! CHeers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulines7 Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Hello, I am new to this board so please forgive me if I am in the wrong thread. My Great Uncle Rifleman Austin John Norman S/7571 was also with the 2nd Bn Kings Royal Rifles Corps but died in action on 21st April 1917. I have found out that he is buried at Gouzeaucourt New British Cemetery but would also like to know where he was when he was killed. Does anyone have any information that would tell me this please? I know I could probably find out if I take a trip to Kew but I live in Wiltshire and am just recovering from an operation. Your help in this matter would be very much appreciated. Pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Hello, I am new to this board so please forgive me if I am in the wrong thread. My Great Uncle Rifleman Austin John Norman S/7571 was also with the 2nd Bn Kings Royal Rifles Corps but died in action on 21st April 1917. Your help in this matter would be very much appreciated. Pauline Pauline, A very warm welcome to the Forum! This isn't really the best place for your request, so I've taken the liberty of starting a new Topic on your behalf here: Rfn Austin J NORMAN, S/7571, 2nd Btn Rifle Brigade, KiA 21 April 1917 - info wanted I hope you don't mind I've added some further detail to get the ball rolling. Also you're mistaken in thinking Austin was in the King's Royal Rifle Corps - he was in fact in The Rifle Brigade. These are sister regiments ... but entirely separate. See this Topic: What's the difference?, KRRC and Rifle Brigade We can now switch to your new Topic over in the Soldiers forum. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenie48 Posted 13 December , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 December , 2008 Stebie Thanks for the lists which I will add to my collection.The support on this forum is just unbelievable. Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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