MBrockway Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Pals, I'm starting this Topic on behalf of new Pal Paulines7 who posted in an inappropriate place elsewhere on the Forum. There Pauline wrote: Hello, I am new to this board so please forgive me if I am in the wrong thread. My Great Uncle Rifleman Austin John Norman S/7571 was also with the 2nd Bn Kings Royal Rifles Corps [Edit from Mark: he was in fact with the The Rifle Brigade] but died in action on 21st April 1917. I have found out that he is buried at Gouzeaucourt New British Cemetery but would also like to know where he was when he was killed. Does anyone have any information that would tell me this please? I know I could probably find out if I take a trip to Kew but I live in Wiltshire and am just recovering from an operation. Your help in this matter would be very much appreciated. Pauline I can add the following from the CWGC: Rifleman NORMAN, A J, 2nd Bn., Rifle Brigade Service No: S/7571 Date of Death: 21/04/1917 Grave/Memorial Reference: VIII. B. 6. Cemetery: GOUZEAUCOURT NEW BRITISH CEMETERY and here's his MIC: (the back was blank, so I've cropped it off) Can anyone tell Pauline about the activities of 2/RB in April 1917 when Austin died? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Mark, Quite a lot in the War Diary for this day, attack at Gonnelieu. Have sent the war diary by e-mail to your astra e-mail address. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 His headstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Pals, Just to clarify: I have no connection with Pauline. I only started this thread because Pauline's original post was in a KRRC thread and being new to the Forum, it was easier for me to start a new Topic in a more appropriate place on her behalf. I thought I'd post the MIC and CWGC details while I was at it, cos I'd got these anyway to confirm her man was definitely not in the KRRC. Pauline: Andy has sent me the War Diary you need. If you send a forum Personal Message to either me or to Andy with your external e-mail address one of us will forward it onto you. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Mark, The e-mail bounced back so resent it to your work address. There are a couple of pages for Austin in Ancestry. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Have downloaded the two pages relating to 7571... (stumbled across by accident). also there are another two pages relating to a 7581 but the writing is so faint Ancestry can be forgiven this time for misreading it....... Will email to pauline if she emails me. (have left a PM for her). Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 13 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Mark, The e-mail bounced back so resent it to your work address. There are a couple of pages for Austin in Ancestry. Andy Andy, I left AstraZeneca last December , but I successfully received the War Diary at my home e-mail address, so something worked! See my reply e-mail sent about 5 mins back for details of which is which. Cheers, Mark [Edit: I've just sent you another e-mail with exact details (@ 21:58hrs)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulines7 Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Thank you all for your help in this matter. I have sent emails to you all. Pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 November , 2008 Share Posted 13 November , 2008 Pauline, Glad to have been able to help you learn a little more about your great uncle. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 14 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2008 Thank you all for your help in this matter. I have sent emails to you all. Pauline Pauline, Some more detail to give you further background ... 2nd Battalion was one of the pre-war Regular (i.e. "professional" soldiers) battalions. They arrived in France at the beginning of the War. We know that Austin was in 2nd Battalion at his death in April 1917. However Austin's Service Number of S/7571 tells us he was a Kitchener volunteer, not a regular. We see from his MIC that he arrived in France on 25th May 1915. He may have been posted directly into 2nd Battalion as a replacement draft, but it also possible that he arrived in France with the early Service battalions made up of Kitchener volunteers. These were 7th, 8th and 9th battalions, The Rifle Brigade, all in the 14th (Light) Division, which embarked in France in May 1915. We can tell either way from the British War/Victory Medal Roll, which will show the Rifle Brigade battalion(s) in which Austin served. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 14 November , 2008 Share Posted 14 November , 2008 Mark, Given the date I at first thought one of the drafts sent to the 2nd after Fromelles (9/5/15) as a lot of men were sent to the 2nd after the losses at Fromelles (Rouges Banc). Just checked his medal roll entry, he first went to the 1st Rifle Brigade Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 14 November , 2008 Share Posted 14 November , 2008 As Susan says, the record is extremely difficult to make out. Here's what I can see but we are missing the key areas. Posted to 1st RB B.E.F. to England 11/7/15, reason unclear. Posted to 5th 11/7/15 Posted to B.E.F. 28/7/15 Awarded 7 days field punishment #1 6/12/15 There is a very faint note of a Gun Shot Wound, but where and what date is illegible. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 14 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2008 Mark, Given the date I at first thought one of the drafts sent to the 2nd after Fromelles (9/5/15) as a lot of men were sent to the 2nd after the losses at Fromelles (Rouges Banc). Just checked his medal roll entry, he first went to the 1st Rifle Brigade Andy Andy comes up trumps again! Pauline - you now know that Austin first served with 1st Battalion before transferring at some point into 2nd Battalion. These were both battalions of Regulars, though as Andy says, by mid 1915, the pre-war regulars were thinning out rapidly Transfers often (but not always) occurred when a soldier returned to front-line fitness after recovering from a wound back in Blighty, so Austin may well have been wounded at some stage. It can be very difficult to pin down the date of a move between battalions unless you're lucky and Austin's Army Service Record survived the attentions of the Luftwaffe in 1940! Look on the bright side though - as you try and trace Austin's war experiences, you'll now get to follow through the exploits of two battalions of this excellent regiment! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 14 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2008 As Susan says, the record is extremely difficult to make out. Here's what I can see but we are missing the key areas. Posted to 1st RB B.E.F. to England 11/7/15, reason unclear. Posted to 5th 11/7/15 Posted to B.E.F. 28/7/15 Awarded 7 days field punishment #1 6/12/15 There is a very faint note of a Gun Shot Wound, but where and what date is illegible. Andy Double trumps!! The Nameless One pre-empts my questions before I can even type them out LOL! Pauline, What Andy's found here tells you Austin arrived in France on 12th May 1915 and joined 1/RB. He was returned back to Blighty on 11 July 1915 but the reason is illegible (a wound is likely) Back in Blighty he was transferred to the 5th Battalion, which was a Reserve battalion on the Isle of Sheppey, and mostly made up of soldiers recovering from wounds - see this interesting Topic: Andrew Ford, 1st Btn, Rifle Brigade incl info on RB & KRRC Reserve btns in England On 28th July 1915 he was returned back to France. This may have been when he switched to 2/RB. He did something naughty in December 1915 and got 7 days Field Punishment No 1. One of the other Pals should be able to give us some idea what sort of thing could lead to 7 days FP1. The picture's starting to build up nicely eh? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulines7 Posted 14 November , 2008 Share Posted 14 November , 2008 .............The picture's starting to build up nicely eh? Cheers, Mark I never dreamt that all this information would be available! How can I ever thank you all enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 14 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2008 I never dreamt that all this information would be available! How can I ever thank you all enough! Unfortunately it usually isn't! LOL! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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