49th West Riding Division

[Tony Lund]

Following a failed attack which I have also seen called a raid on German trenches in a letter of condolence, it is clear that considerable controversy followed the remarks made by some senior officers after the attack by the 147th Infantry Brigade on and around the Pope’s Nose strong point at Thiepval, and the 146th Infantry Brigade’s attack to their north.

The battalions involved in the actual attack were:

In the 147th Brigade the 1st 4th and 1st 5th Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment, and in the 146th Brigade the 1st 6th and 1st 8th Prince of Wales West Yorkshire Regiment.

The 1st 7th Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment was also shelled heavily and it would seem reasonable to assume that all battalions in both brigades were also under shellfire that day.

Anyone who has researched a Memorial will know that there are days when the death rate shoots up. For Holmfirth and district (1st 5th Duke of Wellington’s) the 3rd September 1916 is the second worst day of the whole war.

This is from Sir Douglas Haig’s dairy:

“Monday, 4 September :

I visited Toutencourt and saw Gen.Gough. The failure to hold the position gained on the Ancre is due, he reported to the 49th Division. The units of that Division did not really attack and some men did not follow their officers. The total losses of this Division are under a thousand! It is a Territorial Division from the West Riding of Yorkshire. I had occasion a fortnight ago to call the attention of the Army and Corps Commanders (Gough and Jacobs) to the lack of smartness, and slackness of one of its Battalions in the matter of saluting when I was motoring through the village where it was billeted. I expressed my opinion that such men were too sleepy to fight well, etc. It was due to the failure of the 49th Division that the 39th (which did well and got all their objectives) had to fall back.”

Captain P.G.Bales, who sees things rather differently, wrote in the History of the 1st 4th Battalion, Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment, 1914 - 19:

“It is not the purpose of this book to criticise as a general rule, but some slight exception must be made in connection with the attack on September 3rd. At the time there was a widespread belief, which was certainly held by most of the higher authorities, that the Battalion never gained its objectives. This was wrong. A and B Companies reached, and cleared the enemy from, the whole of the first and second objectives; it is true they did not occupy the whole of them, but that was due simply to lack of men. For more than two hours there were no Germans in either of the lines which the Battalion was ordered to capture. These facts are clearly proved, not only by the evidence of the men who carried out the assault, but also by the German official report on the action.”

It seems that the Pope’s Nose may well have been evacuated by the Germans for a while. I expect to be able to find a fair amount of information about this day locally, but if anyone has any information or opinions, either on any part of this attack, or the arguments among the officers afterwards I would like to hear them. This is clearly an important day in the wartime history of Holmfirth and the more information I can find, from as many sources as possible, the better.

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

In “British Battalions on the Somme”, under the heading 1st 6th Battalion, Prince of Wales West Yorkshire Regiment, Ray Westlake writes: “Captain Tempest notes (3/9) as ‘the blackest day in the history of the Battalion”.

Does anyone know where this is coming from? Is there a battalion history, and if so does anyone have the details?

Tony.

[Chris Noble]

Hi Tony.

Just on the point of the West Yorks battalions. This is from Wyrall's History namely the actions of the 1/6th and 1/8th Battalions;

The whole movement was made without incident, the enemy being very quiet. The night was very dark, which fully accounted for the troops reaching their assembly positions without drawing the enemy's shell fire. By 5.00am the Division had been informed that the 146th Infantry Brigade was in position ready for the attack. At that hour the artillery barrage began and fell promptly and accurately on the German trenches. But the enemy was on the alert. The troops were already lined up within forty yards of the barrage when the latter lifted and the hour of assault arrived. Steadily the men went forward. The enemy's barrage opened three minutes after Zero hour and, although the first wave of West Yorkshiremen suffered little from it, the second wave, on leaving the first parallel and crossing the sunken road, were badly caught in the zone of fire. The second line group, consisting of the machine gunners, trench mortars, carrying parties, etc., were so badly cut up that they were unable to advance and the remnants never crossed No Man's Land.

Meanwhile the first wave had reached the enemy's front line with only few casualties, and for a little while it really seemed as if the attack was going to succeed. Then suddenly the enemy's machine-guns from the Popes Nose, on the immediate right front of the 1/6th Battalion, opened a terribly accurate enfilade fire and casualties at once became very heavy. A number of men pushed forward and entered the enemy's trenches, but the impetus of the attack had stayed.

At 7-4am the 1/8th Battalion reported that their two companies, A and C, had been counter attacked and driven out of the German line and had retired to the second parallel. Six minutes later the 1/6th also reported a hostile counter-attack, which had driven the last survivors of the West Yorkshiremen out of the enemy's line and back to their original position. At 8.00am the 1/5th West Yorks relieved the 1/6th Battalion.

The attack of the 146th Infantry Brigade was pratically over by 7.00am. On the right of the Brigade the 4th and 5th West Ridings of the 147th Infantry Brigade had won forward, but the former (the battalion on the right of the 1/6th West Yorks) had failed to take the Popes Nose (one of its objectives). It was this strong point, with its enfilade machine-gun fire, which not only broke up the attack of the West Yorks, but also that of the West Riding battalions.

There is no doubt that the exhausted state of the men was a very large factor in the failure of this attack. Always willing the men did all that was posiible, but they were utterly worn out and quite unfit to attack when Zero hour arrived, and that parties of them, even under those conditions, should have obtained a footing in the enemy's trenches was an eloquent tribute to their fighting qualities.

Hope that helps a bit Tony. The Division it must be remembered, had held the sector fom 1/7/16. Surely that points to the fact of the fatigue mentioned?

Regards, Chris.

[Tony Lund]

It is interesting and useful stuff. I was astonished to find that the local library does not have a copy of the History of the 49th Division, I was sure I had seen one in there a year or so ago, so I have ordered one. That should help with the details. The battalion next to the 146th and responsible for the Pope's Nose was the 1st 5th West Ridings, Huddersfield’s pre-war territorial battalion, next to them between the Pope's Nose and the Schwaben Redoubt was the 1st 4th, Halifax.

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

Does anyone have figures for deaths in the 146th and 147th Infantry Brigades on the 3rd September 1916. My local library has a copy of the updated SDITGW so I can check each of the eight battalions on Monday afternoon, so there is no need for anyone to go to any trouble, but someone may already have this information.

I would also be most interested in any casualty figures for the 49th Division or any of the Brigades that appear in any source. It is highly likely that there are a number of conflicting figures out there, and I would like to see who is saying what on casualties. According to Sir Douglas Haig, General Gough thinks under a thousand for the Division. The Official History says four battalions lost 1200 men, but does not make it clear if it means the four attacking battalions or the four battalions of the 147th Brigade, all of whom were under shellfire all morning.

British Battalions on the Somme gives 347 and 350 for the 1/4th and 1/5th Dukes respectively. The 1/4th attacked with 3 Companies of 127 men and 3 Officers each and the 1/5th attacked with 2 Companies, strength not yet known (to me). British Battalions on the Somme also gives 241 and 303 for the 1/6th and 1/8th West Yorks respectively. Which does give a four battalion total only slightly higher than the Official History figure.

The battalions are:

146th Infantry Brigade. Prince of Wales West Yorkshire Regiment: 1/5th 1/6th 1/7th 1/8th

147th Infantry Brigade. Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment: 1/4th 1/5th 1/6th 1/7th

Thanks.

Tony.

[Chris Noble]

Hi Tony.

Regarding 146th Infantry Brigade;

1/6th, West Yorks, 6 Officers and 235 O/Rs.

1/8th, West Yorks, 9 Officers and 294 O/Rs.

1/5th, West Yorks, 6 Officers and 103 O/Rs.

Regards, Chris.

[Tony Lund]

Thanks. Those are interesting figures, do you know how many men were in the attacking companies?

The 1/4th Duke of Wellington’s attacked with 3 Companies of 127 men and 3 Officers, 390 men in total plus “a few battalion H.Q. details”. Casualties for the battalion are given in the History of the 1st 4th, Duke of Wellington’s as 347. It also says the German’s recorded 7 unwounded prisoners from the 1/4 and 1/5th Dukes together, all other prisoners were wounded.

A party of C Company searched No Man’s Land for wounded that night, and I suppose anyone not accounted for by the next morning would be officially missing and added to the casualty list. Many of the dead were initially reported to be missing, and were confirmed to be dead in July 1917.

The 1st 7th Duke of Wellington’s seem to have spent the day in reserve in Thiepval Wood under heavy shellfire.

A bad day for all concerned.

Tony.

[Chris Noble]

Hi Tony.

Well, thats a question!

146th Infantry Brigade received re-inforcements August from a variety of regiments. I can only presume, that each battalion was up to strength. Source is Wyrall again, but, i have a few days off next week, if you want, i'll see what they have at York?

1/5th West Yorks, 20 Officers, 438 O/Rs.

1/6th West Yorks, 21 Officers, 620 O/Rs.

1/7th West Yorks, 12 Officers, 529 O/Rs.

1/8th West Yorks, 25 Officers, 591 O/Rs.

Just as a footnote. Every available man employed in carrying ammo etc,. Fatigue, in my opinion, was the cause of the attack to fail.

Be interested to see if Ralph has anything from the German perspective.

All the best mate.

Chris.

[Tony Lund]

The number of deaths recorded in the updated version of Soldiers Died in the Great War for the 3rd September 1916 are as follows:

146th Infantry Brigade, Prince of Wales West Yorkshire Regiment:

1st 5th Battalion, 45

1st 6th Battalion, 49

1st 7th Battalion, 17

1st 8th Battalion, 64

147th Infantry Brigade, Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment:

1st 4th Battalion, 147

1st 5th Battalion, 106

1st 6th Battalion, 16

1st 7th Battalion, 25

Of course these are just the deaths,

Tony.

[Chris Noble]

Hi Tony.

Be most interested to see what you turn up. I'll drop you a pm tommorow when my kids have stopped playing up

Regards, Chris.

[Tony Lund]

I am having trouble finding any more that very brief mentions of this attack, I would like to know if anything is mentioned in this book:

History of the Sixth Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment.

Capt. E. Tempest

I have seen the Official History, and the History of the 1st 4th Duke of Wellington’s, and the West Riding Territorials in the Great War.

The History of the 49th West Riding Division that I was so sure about does not appear to exist as a separate volume. I have been told to look for it within the History of the 62nd West Riding Division, which I have ordered.

I have also seen Lyn Macdonald’s suggestion that a retreat may have been ordered by a German Officer dressed as a British Officer. Interestingly an officer of the 1st 5th Duke of Wellington’s walked along the empty German frontline from the Pope’s Nose to a communication trench facing the Schwaben Redoubt held by the remnants of D Company, 1st 4th Duke of Wellington’s. This officer ordered the Sergeant in charge to take his 20 odd survivors and withdraw. The Sergeant very sensibly waited for dark and got his men back without further loss. Of course this was the 147th Infantry Brigade and Lyn Macdonald was talking about the 146th Infantry Brigade which was attacking next door.

Chris Noble as added the information from the History of the Prince of Wales West Yorkshire Regiment.

A multi-page War Diary entry for the day from the 246th Brigade RFA, complete with excellent maps has been most kindly provided by Simon R. This Brigade was behind the 146th Infantry Brigade and to the left of my main area of interest but their observers made some very useful comments, and the maps are worth mentioning twice.

At some point in the next two weeks I hope to see the War Diaries for the four Duke of Wellington’s battalions of the 147th Infantry Brigade. In the meantime any information will be more than welcome, and I wish to thank all those who have already given information, both on and off the forum.

Hopefully there will be useful information on the 49th Division incorporated into the History of the 62nd Division. The book should arrive shortly.

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

I am looking for the full names and tittles of all the Battalion and Brigade commanders in the 49th West Riding Division on 3rd September 1916, including Artillery Brigade Commanders. And also the Corps and the Army Commander. I know that General Gough was either Corps or Army commander but I don’t know which yet.

Commander of the 49th Division was Major General E. M. Perceval.

I believe the Division was in X Corps at this time.

Fourth Army?????

I would also like to know if any of these men are known to have published memoirs or diaries etc. The battalions of the 147th and 146th Infantry Brigades are given above, and the 148th is listed below.

148th Infantry Brigade

1st 4th Battalion, KOYLI

1st 5th Battalion, KOYLI

1st 4th Battalion, York and Lancaster

1st 5th Battalion, York and Lancaster

The Artillery Brigades are:

245th Brigade,

246th Brigade,

247th Brigade,

248th Brigade,

Any information and/or corrections will be most welcome.

Thanks.

Tony.

[Simon R]

I'll post you some personal diary extracts for 3rd Sept. from 245th bde. artillery observers - a bit peripheral as you'll find out but fascinating reading.

[Tony Lund]

Simon,

Thanks, I am sure it will be interesting. Can you tell me which Artillery Brigade was behind the 147th Infantry Brigade? Also do you know the names of any of the Artillery Brigades Commanding Officers?

Thanks,

Tony.

[Simon R]

I'll have a look and get back to you - I can give you COs, officers, NCOs, ORs for both 245th/6th I think, will have to root around.

Col. Whitely is key figure here in artillery prep. for those bdes. during Somme - variety of OPs built under his command which are interesting to look at, artillery schemes worked out by him too.

[Simon R]

p.s. lovely white wreath placed on memorial outside Leeds Parish Church, hadn't noticed it before, commemorates 3rd Sept. and Leeds Rifles, saw it on way to work.

[Tony Lund]

Thanks, I just want the Commanding Officers at the moment, and if possible the RFA Brigade behind the 147th. I am getting quiet familiar with this area and I want to draw a map showing where everybody was at the start and another showing the extent of penetration into the German lines, so far as that is known. There is information about this, but it is scattered about in many different books, and I haven’t looked at the battalion diaries yet. So there is more information still to come.

Tony.

[Simon R]

Just e-mailed you the 3rd Sept. refs.

[Simon R]

... and I've just noticed your tag-line re: Littlewood, 7th WR, I've got a ref. to that, I'll e-mail it to you.

[Tony Lund]

Many thanks, it is all useful. Amazing how little information is around on the 49th Division compared to the 62nd. I don’t even know the names of the battalion commanders for the 49th, but I have them all for the 62nd, although that list is for their first arrival in France and will have been subject to changes, but at least it is a starting point, and their history even names the divisional vet, one Captain P. Abson, AVC!

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

Edward Nathan Whitley.

Thanks,

I found a google reference to Brigadier-General Edward Nathan Whitley, CB CMG DSO, BGRA, Clifton College, Cambridge University, Royal Horse & Royal Field Artillery.

Unfortunately there is nothing about General Whitley that appears to be of interest beyond the fact that a bit of background is always interesting. I am hoping one of these officers will have published his memoirs and mentioned 3rd September. If I know who they are I can keep my eyes open for anything they may have written, or any reference to them, also the more background I can get the better.

Huddersfield library have very kindly just bought a copy of the reprint “The West Riding Territorials in the Great War”, I have it with me now. Also the History of the 1st 4th Dukes, and for completeness, Major Tempest’s History of the 6th Prince of Wales is on order from the inter-library loan service.

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

Stellenbosched!

Brigadier-General Edward Fitzgerald Brereton CB DSO. In command 147th Brigade, 49th Division until September 1916, when he was sent home after the failure of his brigade’s attack. After a period on half-pay, September 1916 - May 1917, he was given command of the Wessex Reserve Brigade at home. He commanded this formation until his retirement on 24th April 1918.

The Division's Commander, Major General Edward Maxwell Perceval, stayed in command until 1917.

I don’t know who the 146th Infantry Brigade Commander was yet, or what, if anything, happened to him.

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

The infantry attacks will have taken place from the trenches close up by the Mill Road. Can the Artillery Brigades involved fit on to this map?

Mill Road meets Thiepval Road at the East KOYLI sap.

I expect to be able to place the battalions of both Infantry Brigades without too much trouble, but I have no idea where the artillery were.

Tony.

[Tony Lund]

Private Ronald Lee of the 1st 5th Duke of Wellington’s was wounded on 3rd September. He was reported to be in hospital at Norwich on the 7th, and similar reports appear in the next edition of the local paper. They seem to be well organised for getting the wounded back. But it was almost a year before the missing were officially declared killed in action.

Tony.

[Desmond7]

http://www.aftermathww1.com/hughes.asp

Des