shippingsteel Posted 17 December , 2014 Share Posted 17 December , 2014 Recently I have been looking back through some of the older threads on the forum and came to the realisation that I haven’t posted any new photos from my collection for over 2 years now.! This is probably more a reflection of the spare time that I have had available to do all the necessary cleaning and preparation for the taking of such photos than any lack of actual collecting. Over the last couple of years I have been slowly accumulating ‘new recruits’ to the collection through the normal on-line channels, from antique stores, gun shows, car boot sales and other enthusiasts. The pile of boxes in the corner has been steadily building, reaching quite precarious proportions until this last week when the opportunity has finally arrived to take some remedial action. Our long awaited monsoon season has arrived bringing with it a deluge of flooding rain. We have personally received 12 inches of rain this week, meaning all those work-related projects are now put on hold. And some time can now be found for the more enjoyable and satisfying projects … which in my case always means going through my ‘stuff’ and cleaning, restoring and cataloguing bayonets.! So I have decided to take some photos of what emerges from my workbench and hope they will be of interest. These examples are in no particular order or of any special interest but are simply a cross-section of what I like to add to my collection. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2014 So this is the first instalment. I am not going to go into too much detail here - just some photos with a short description of what is shown. Keep it simple, etc.! Some short bayonets ... At top we have the Italian M1891 bayonet (Sciabola Baionetta Modello 1891) for the Carcano rifle, complete with its brass mounted leather scabbard and leather frog. At bottom is the Austrian M1895 for the Mannlicher rifle. This is the NCO variant with the hooked quillon, together with wire loop for the lanyard. Black steel scabbard. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2014 And the closeups of those all important markings.! Firstly, the M1895's makers mark of OEWG (Oesterreichische Waffenfabriks Gesellschaft) in Steyr. Then the Austro-Hungarian ownership mark of the K.u.K. Imperial eagle. And the very early production AF serial number on the Italian M1891 bayonet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 December , 2014 Share Posted 17 December , 2014 ... Then the Austro-Hungarian ownership mark of the K.u.K. Imperial eagle. Very nice bayonets - but would you have a closer look at the Austrian marking? What size is it and is there a crown there? I was wondering if it might be Austrian Republic marking, 1918-1934. Trajan PS: Hope the weather improves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2014 Some long bayonets ... These are a pair of Turkish M1890 bayonets that were made by JP Sauer & Sohn of Suhl, and shipped with the consignment of M1893 Turkish Mauser rifles. Turkish bayonets are over represented here in Australia, with many surfacing out of antique shops as vet bringbacks from the Palestine & Gallipoli campaigns. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2014 Closeups of the maker's mark on the ricasso, written in the Osmanli/Arabic script ... indicating manufacture by JP Sauer in 1312 AH and 1313 AH respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2014 Some shots of the serial numbers that are stamped into the crossguard (eg 150110) and then the Ottoman crescent moon symbol and Tughra of the Sultan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 17 December , 2014 Share Posted 17 December , 2014 Some nice bayonets S>S - interesting to hear about the presence of Turkish bayonets in Australia. I like those 1890's. Having not seen any at fairs before, I picked up 3 in 4 months this year. Do you clean up the blades? If so, what is your cleaning regime? Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2014 Hi Tony, I don't polish any blades - what doesn't come off with gun oil, fine wire wool and a cotton rag stays there.! Most of what I pickup is relatively clean to begin with, which helps. Those sleeper type Turkish bayonets often have cleaner blades as they have been protected being stored in the scabbards, whilst the crossguards and pommels show the corrosion. The main advice that I would give regarding cleaning is to liberally oil FIRST and allow it to soften any rust before wiping off with an oily rag. It is important to only use wire wool on a well OILED blade to help loosen any stubborn patches of corrosion. You don't want to be leaving any scratches on the metalwork from the wire wool. It needs to be completely soaked in oil BEFORE it touches the blade. I use a wide array of different grade oils depending on the job at hand. Ranging from simple sewing machine oil for general protection right up to expensive solvent based gun oil for removing serious rust. And likewise for the timber grip furniture and the leather scabbards and frogs, they all have their own cleaning and protection treatments. I use various furniture polishes and leather conditioners for this. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 18 December , 2014 Share Posted 18 December , 2014 S>S I do not collect foreign bayonets, but can still appreciate the nice examples you posted. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 18 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2014 Thanks for the comments. Of course not every bayonet presents in good condition. Some have been 'hard used' and sharpened for many a battle, while others are hard to find in their original format. Some rough bayonets ... At top is a battered Turkish M1887 for the Mauser rifle of the same name. The blade on this has been noticeably ground down. A bringback with shrunken leather scabbard. And at bottom is the Italian M1870 bayonet for the Vetterli rifle (and later Vetterli-Vitali) This example remains totally unmodified and features the original brown ebonite grips. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 18 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2014 Some shots of the Turkish M1887, showing the makers mark of Alexander Coppel and date of 1306 AH, and the serial number stamped across the guard (eg 85985) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 18 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2014 Some of the many hallmarks that are found on the Italian M1870. The Crowned FT seen on the guard indicates early manufacture by Fabbrica d' Armi di Torino. PP stamped on the ricasso stands for Parti Permutabili, which means this piece was manufactured by the innovative new process, using 'interchangeable parts'.! On the other ricasso we see another Crowned FT and the serial AG 2936 on the crossguard which dates manufacture to around 1879. Note brown ebonite grips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 19 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2014 Some common bayonets ... Another pair of your 'everyday' P1907's with their standard 'teardrop' scabbards. The top bayonet is a 1916 example manufactured by Sanderson Bros. At bottom is a 1918 date manufactured by Vickers. You can see the noticeably larger clearance hole. And yes Vickers P1907's are still quite common.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 19 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2014 Closeups of the Sanderson showing the Royal cypher, Pattern number and date of manufacture, being August 1916. With another inspection (or "reissue") in 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 19 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2014 And shots of the ricasso markings on the Vickers, showing the Cypher and Pattern number as well as the Vickers Crayford symbol. Also a further inspection date in 1923. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 19 December , 2014 Share Posted 19 December , 2014 Lovely bayonets S>S, thanks for posting. I particularly like the Italian m1870, not an easy bayonet to find in unmodified form. I've got to ask - will you be posting any Aussie bayonets? I think that thread you started on Australian bayonets is still my all time favourite... Cheers, Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 19 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2014 Good to hear from you J. Yes I do believe there might be a few treats in store ... I guess it's that time of year isn't it.! As I said these are in no particular order ... The second bunch from this pile are on my bench now awaiting cleaning, and I did notice some nice Aussie ones amongst them. Maybe leaving the best to last.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 December , 2014 Share Posted 19 December , 2014 Very nice bayonets - but would you have a closer look at the Austrian marking? What size is it and is there a crown there? I was wondering if it might be Austrian Republic marking, 1918-1934. Trajan PS: Hope the weather improves! It would be nice for all of us to have an answer! This is really is one of those cases where size does matter! Austrian Republic marks are a different size from KUK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanniballector Posted 19 December , 2014 Share Posted 19 December , 2014 What can be said,that hasn't been said !.... Very nice collection, let's see some more please ! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 20 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2014 And then you come across bayonets that are still in virtually mint condition, with blades like mirrors.! Never ceases to amaze me, considering it is nigh 100 years on. Some shiny bayonets ... So at top is the Chilean M1895, for the Mauser rifle of the same name. Not sure how this one fits into the GW collection but it was too nice an example to pass by.! And at bottom we have a German S84/98 with flashguard, used on both the Gewehr 98 and Kar98 AZ. This 1916 example has somehow survived with 'mint' blade. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 20 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2014 The ricasso shots of the M1895 showing the Chilean crest to the left and the symbol of Krupp Steel on the right. And quite an early run serial number of A4595. The other ricasso shows the makers mark of Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Co. Surely there must have been some 7mm 'export' Mausers seconded into service.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 20 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2014 Closeups of the S84/98 with spine markings indicating issue into Prussian service in 1916. And then the 'double' makers stamps, being marked on both sides. On left ricasso is the crossed keys symbol of F.Herder & Sohn of Solingen, whilst right ricasso shows the mark of Walter & Co. from Mühlhausen in Thüringen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 December , 2014 Share Posted 20 December , 2014 Some very nice examples of all kinds there - and the double-stamped Herder / Walter is one I have not seen before - but there again, I am a novice in such things! I follow the reasoning that a lot of the Ottoman bayonets in Australia are bring-backs, but it is still rather odd that there aren't so many in the UK - there were many more UK troops out there than from the antipodes. Whatever, you can probably find more and in better condition that I do in Turkey! ... On which note, any Turkish M.1913's? Trajan PS: Re: the M.95 - according to my notes the KuK crowned eagle was 3.5 mm, the Republican one is larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 December , 2014 Share Posted 20 December , 2014 ...On left ricasso is the crossed keys symbol of F.Herder & Sohn of Solingen, whilst right ricasso shows the mark of Walter & Co. from Mühlhausen in Thüringen.... Just to fill in things... Small correction needed there... 'Friedrich Herder, son of Abraham (Herder) of Solingen', not F.Herder & So{h}n. An easy enough mistake to make with this stamp - the BCN web-page made the same mistake too: http://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages/Imperial_German_Blade_Markings/imperial_german_blade_markings.html - but the 'Abr. Sohne' was the give away. The Herder's were renowned blade-makers - razors especially. Their history is at: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Herder_Abraham_Sohn. Walter and Co. of Muhlhausen were machinery and motor-bike manufacturers - so probably blank blade makers in this case? Their abbreviated history is at: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_%26_Co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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