Forgotten Heroes

[TWORLEDGE]

I've

I've seen a few tombstones in Hove Cemetery such as this one where the inference seems to indicate that the person died as a result of war effort. It isn't a soldier's stone though. The second name is on rolls of honour. I'm wondering how to get the fellow at the top remembered. He seems to have succumbed to the effort of war. Or so the family seem to want people to know. "Find a grave" is one option. I wonder if anyone knows of any others. yours Terry.

[Chris_Baker]

Link did not work for me, Terry.

[mandy hall]

I know exactly what you mean Terry. When I visited Victor's grave recently (thanks to your map). I spent an hour wandering around Hove cemetery and was suprised by how many graves mentioned military men alot had connections to India. I did take some photos to try and post but they are to large. The grave next but one to Vicor's is to

Vernon de Courcy McCarthy

1st class C P O R N V R

Sussex Division Howe Battalion

who served in the Galipolli Campaign

1915-1918

Born 20th January 1877

At rest 6th November 1923

My great uncle Harry Francis Hall is remembered on his grandmother's grave in Portfield Cemetery Chichester, he also has a war grave in Rouen France not sure if my grandfather (who also served WW1) even knew this existed he always talked about going to visit his brothers grave in France but he never went back to France. I only discovered this grave when I started researching my family history and now make sure it has a remembrance cross on it evey November and I visit regularly to make sure the headstone is in good condition and still standing.

[TWORLEDGE]

Link did not work for me, Terry.

Sorry Chris. finally figured out how to do it. Hope it's ok now. Our beloved and "only" sons. Very sad. Terry.

[Tom Morgan]

I like looking for commemoration like this one, in UK cemeteries. Percy Ernest Cain is commemorated by the CWGC, and the grave Terry shows in his excellent photo in Hove Cemetery is his burial place and is an official war grave. It doesn't have a CWGC headstone though, and this is presumably because the family chose not to have one.

(Alan Victor Cain has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing).

Tom

[Chris_Baker]

He is commemorated in the CWGC register for the cemetery, but the evidence is that the family chose to erect their own stone rather than have him on a WGC one: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=659955

EDIT: that Tom Morgan can type so quickly!

[TWORLEDGE]

I know exactly what you mean Terry. When I visited Victor's grave recently (thanks to your map). I spent an hour wandering around Hove cemetery and was suprised by how many graves mentioned military men alot had connections to India. I did take some photos to try and post but they are to large. The grave next but one to Vicor's is to

Vernon de Courcy McCarthy

1st class C P O R N V R

Sussex Division Howe Battalion

who served in the Galipolli Campaign

1915-1918

Born 20th January 1877

At rest 6th November 1923

My great uncle Harry Francis Hall is remembered on his grandmother's grave in Portfield Cemetery Chichester, he also has a war grave in Rouen France not sure if my grandfather (who also served WW1) even knew this existed he always talked about going to visit his brothers grave in France but he never went back to France. I only discovered this grave when I started researching my family history and now make sure it has a remembrance cross on it evey November and I visit regularly to make sure the headstone is in good condition and still standing.

Hi Mandy. I forgot to take a picture of that one. There is an interesting book online. Sort of souvenir thing called Hove and The Great War. It a pdf or text but the pdf had some pictures. http://www.archive.org/details/hovegreatwarreco00walbiala Should get you to it. I use SKYDRIVE to put pix on here or share them. Had to simply make a folder called cains. Share it with everyone and then put the link in here. First I put the link to the folder which wasn't very good. Then I put in the link copied from Properties on the picture and it worked. After I removed the automatic Https// thingy. I've been putting a great war magazine on there to share. No idea whether anyone has though. It's about 360 pages of pdf but the photos are interesting. There are some stories of individual valour or merely human interest stuff. I want to try and look up the soldiers and find out what finally happened to them. yours Terry.

[ianjonesncl]

He is commemorated in the CWGC register for the cemetery, but the evidence is that the family chose to erect their own stone rather than

Chris

I also came across a private headstone in a local cemetery where the person is listed on the CWGC register. Did relatives have a choice as to whether or not a CWGC headstone was erected?

Ian

[TWORLEDGE]

I like looking for commemoration like this one, in UK cemeteries. Percy Ernest Cain is commemorated by the CWGC, and the grave Terry shows in his excellent photo in Hove Cemetery is his burial place and is an official war grave. It doesn't have a CWGC headstone though, and this is presumably because the family chose not to have one.

(Alan Victor Cain has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing).

Tom

Thank's Tom. Put my mind at rest there. I noticed on the site for the Brighton, Bear Rd cemetery that there are stones to soldiers who died 1961 or therebouts. I don't know whether they are CWGC stones though. Thanks for the info. Terry.

[TWORLEDGE]

I like looking for commemoration like this one, in UK cemeteries. Percy Ernest Cain is commemorated by the CWGC, and the grave Terry shows in his excellent photo in Hove Cemetery is his burial place and is an official war grave. It doesn't have a CWGC headstone though, and this is presumably because the family chose not to have one.

(Alan Victor Cain has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing).

Tom

Hi Tom.

this is an interesting one. Died in 1919 at 19. Served from 1914 to 1919. I think he was a boy in the navy and then went to the REs as a motor cyclist. I think that was the MC meaning on his stone. First glance I thought it was a Military Cross. His records are full of letters asking for him back but I think he got a fever and malaria in Salonika. Anyway he died in 1919. Very tragic story really. All in a zip file in this location.

http://cid-93e2e44a6a219b30.skydrive.live....ITARY%20RECORDS

[MichaelBully]

Hi Terry and Mandy,

Hove Library foyer has a plaque to commemorate local forces men who died in the Great War. There is this list here

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Sussex/Hove-R-T.html

which gives some information. But I wonder it is completely accurate: I have already written to them months ago to point out that Victor Richardson MC died of wounds he received at the battle of Arras -not in Palestine.

The main Hove war memorial in Grand Avenue does not mention any names at all and I wonder if the librrary memorial fulfils this function. I have tried to find out more about the Hove library plaque and how it was funded -whether by local subscription or by civic funding- but not got very far as yet.

Regards,

Michael

[TWORLEDGE]

Hi Terry and Mandy,

Hove Library foyer has a plaque to commemorate local forces men who died in the Great War. There is this list here

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Sussex/Hove-R-T.html

which gives some information. But I wonder it is completely accurate: I have already written to them months ago to point out that Victor Richardson MC died of wounds he received at the battle of Arras -not in Palestine.

The main Hove war memorial in Grand Avenue does not mention any names at all and I wonder if the librrary memorial fulfils this function. I have tried to find out more about the Hove library plaque and how it was funded -whether by local subscription or by civic funding- but not got very far as yet.

Regards,

Michael

Hi Michael. The book "Hove in the Great War." Talks about fund raising for the war effort. Not sure whether it goes on to mention memorials. Can be found at the University of California. Google should throw it up. Few photos. Interesting one about how to become a refugee in case of invasion. They mention the Chadwell guy but only to say he died at 19 at home. No mention of the fact that he was fighting in France aged 15. We learn so little from these memorials sometimes . Yours Terry

[Ghost]

How does Terry get over the 100k photo attachment limit ?

Alan

[Andy Wade]

How does Terry get over the 100k photo attachment limit ?

Alan

He doesn't. It's image linked from another server here:

Clickety click

[River97]

Frederick Chadwell is also commemorated on the CWGC Debt of Honour.

His details are here

Cheers Andy.

[TWORLEDGE]

How does Terry get over the 100k photo attachment limit ?

Alan

I put the file in a folder in my Skydrive Alan. Free 36gb of storage. Google skydrive to find out about it. Then I make it accessible to all. Then I click on the pic till it opens. copy that addy and paste it into the bit that opens from the img symbol when messaging. Remember to take out the Https thing first or you might have 2 and it won't work. Seems to work ok. Saves all that reducing photo's stuff. Yours Terry.

[TWORLEDGE]

Frederick Chadwell is also commemorated on the CWGC Debt of Honour.

His details are here

Cheers Andy.

Thanks Andy. Sounds a really great young man. Can't get over him being an NCO at 16. How they must have laughed when the information came into his co. He calls him "This lad." in his letter and seems very proud of him. There is a wonderful story here for anyone with the skills to write it. As regards the other grave I've noticed that the ones next door are the same pattern. I haven't got the inscription for those but will pop along and get a shot of the whole group. I the others are the parent's stones then that might mean that the one for the boys has been renewed or cleaned. I'm just starting to look into this sort of thing so if what I'm saying is a bit obvious to anyone then apologies. I've no idea how the CWGC operates.

yours Terry.

[Andy Wade]

I put the file in a folder in my Skydrive Alan. Free 36gb of storage. Google skydrive to find out about it. Then I make it accessible to all. Then I click on the pic till it opens. copy that addy and paste it into the bit that opens from the img symbol when messaging. Remember to take out the Https thing first or you might have 2 and it won't work. Seems to work ok. Saves all that reducing photo's stuff. Yours Terry.

Some of them are just a bit big for the forum, they make the page stretch sideways. Not a major deal but it can be confusing for some.

There comes a point where they become too unwieldy, perhaps they could be resized a little?

[Ghost]

Never noticed the address of the image, nice one. I might have to change some of my links.

Alan

[Chris_Baker]

Did relatives have a choice as to whether or not a CWGC headstone was erected?

For burials at home, yes.

For burials overseas, no.

[Andy Wade]

For burials at home, yes.

For burials overseas, no.

And they had a choice of having a personal inscription added at the bottom.

[TWORLEDGE]

Some of them are just a bit big for the forum, they make the page stretch sideways. Not a major deal but it can be confusing for some.

There comes a point where they become too unwieldy, perhaps they could be resized a little?

Hi Andy.

good idea the shape seems to be the thing. Square seems to fit better on my page but of course some people are using different desktop resolutions I suppose. Anyway I changed that one and the tractor bar is gone. Skydrive seem to resize them so that the ones of tah's grave I put on another part of the forum had to be put in zips to upload the whole 3 mbs of file. Tah is Victor Richardson Vera Brittain's friend.

Terry.

[Ghost]

Refresh my memory, when did the CWGC, or whoever it was then, announce that cwgc stones would be an option in the UK, and at what price per letter for personal inscriptions?

Alan

[Andy Wade]

Refresh my memory, when did the CWGC, or whoever it was then, announce that cwgc stones would be an option in the UK, and at what price per letter for personal inscriptions?

Alan

Did they charge relatives for lettering personal messages on CWGC stones? I wasn't aware that they did that. I would be very interested to see any documentation to that effect.

On my travels around cemeteries I've noticed several options, either a CWGC stone on it's own, a combination of the family gravestone and a CWGC stone placed in front or at the opposite end of the grave, or just an engraving on the family headstone which clearly indicates that they are buried there, rather than a mention about their son buried in France etc.

I have seen somewhere that the CWGC offered a stone but this was not always taken up as they used the family stone. I'm not sure about who looks after the grave if there's no CWGC stone present. Do the CWGC take up responsibilty for maintaining a family stone?

Just been looking on the CWGC site for this.

Fabian Ware, as part of the Red Cross started recording graves in 1914, and then in 1915 The Graves Registration Commission was recognised as a distinct group.

In May 1917, the Imperial War Graves Commission was established by Royal Charter with the Prince of Wales and President.

After some experimentation, Forceville Cemetery in France was used as the template for all other cemeteries. The principles at the time were that each man should be remembered with a single identical stone making no distinction for class or rank. There's no mention of any charge to anyone for personal inscriptions on the stones, just a load of information about the total costs for the whole thing and the maintenance costs being £42 million per year, paid for by member countries depending on numbers of graves allocated to each country. People did and still can make donations or bequests.

[TWORLEDGE]

Did they charge relatives for lettering personal messages on CWGC stones? I wasn't aware that they did that. I would be very interested to see any documentation to that effect.

On my travels around cemeteries I've noticed several options, either a CWGC stone on it's own, a combination of the family gravestone and a CWGC stone placed in front or at the opposite end of the grave, or just an engraving on the family headstone which clearly indicates that they are buried there, rather than a mention about their son buried in France etc.

I have seen somewhere that the CWGC offered a stone but this was not always taken up as they used the family stone. I'm not sure about who looks after the grave if there's no CWGC stone present. Do the CWGC take up responsibilty for maintaining a family stone?

Just been looking on the CWGC site for this.

Fabian Ware, as part of the Red Cross started recording graves in 1914, and then in 1915 The Graves Registration Commission was recognised as a distinct group.

In May 1917, the Imperial War Graves Commission was established by Royal Charter with the Prince of Wales and President.

After some experimentation, Forceville Cemetery in France was used as the template for all other cemeteries. The principles at the time were that each man should be remembered with a single identical stone making no distinction for class or rank. There's no mention of any charge to anyone for personal inscriptions on the stones, just a load of information about the total costs for the whole thing and the maintenance costs being £42 million per year, paid for by member countries depending on numbers of graves allocated to each country. People did and still can make donations or bequests.

I've seen a stone with a bronze inlay very like the Plaques that were issued with the scrolls. Could you order extra ones for this purpose or would it be original. Yours Terry.