Victoria Burbidge Posted 2 April , 2009 Share Posted 2 April , 2009 I can now confirm that the service to mark the 94th anniversary of the Battle of Aubers Ridge will take place on Saturday 9th May. It’s going to be a big ceremony this year as it will coincide with the commencement of the recovery of the men from Pheasant Wood. It’s possible that there may even be some media present. The RBL Ypres Branch has been both very helpful and extremely supportive in what has proved to be a difficult service to organise. Those of you who know Fromelles will be familiar with the imbalance between the British and Australian history, as it is currently presented. This imbalance has not come about through the fault of either nation, but more through a lack of education within the village itself and the Association. I’m hoping that the 9th May service will begin to redress this imbalance. This year’s service will not focus solely on the 2/Rifle Brigade, but will bring in the other units which were in action that day. I also wish to link the 1915 and 1916 battles. Major General Paul Stevens, Director of the Office of Australian War Graves, has very kindly given permission for us to hold our service at the Australian Memorial Park. The Memorial Park is on the site of the old German front line trench and is the exact location where the Germans closed the bag on our men in the early hours of 10th May 1915. Our guest list is bursting with the names of many dignitaries and some very well known Fromelles-related names and we expect to have a good Australian presence, something which was lacking last year (although we were very lucky to have Lambis Englezos present). The Passchendaele 1917 Pipe and Drum have agreed to play for us. Following the service, there will be a drinks reception at the village hall to include a small "Fromelles 1915" exhibition. I have also been told that there may be a viewing mound situated on the footpath down to Pheasant Wood where one may be able to catch a glimpse of the enclosed area (although we shouldn’t expect to be able to see anything very much). The details are: 14.45 hours for 15.00 hours, Saturday 9th May 2009 The Australian Memorial Park Rouges-Bancs, Fromelles The service is open to all, but I would be grateful for an idea of numbers in order to arrange sufficient parking and for the following reception. There will be wreath-laying during the service and anyone wishing to lay a wreath is asked to advise me accordingly. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Burbidge Posted 4 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2009 I’d be glad to hear from anyone with any relevant information and/or photos of men from the following units or of the units themselves. They all formed part of the 8th Division as at 9th May 1915. 23rd Brigade 2/Devonshire Regiment 2/Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 2/Middlesex Regiment 1/7th Middlesex Regiment 2/West Yorkshire Regiment 1/6th Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 24th Brigade 2/Northamptonshire Regiment 2/East Lancashire Regiment 1/Sherwood Foresters 1/Worcestershire Regiment 1/5th Black Watch 25th Brigade 2/Rifle Brigade 1/Royal Irish Rifles 1/13th London Regiment 2/Lincolnshire Regiment 2/Royal Berkshire Regiment 1/1st London Regiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 4 April , 2009 Share Posted 4 April , 2009 Don't worry, V. I'm working on the 2nd Northamptons! I've been under the weather the last few of days, so I hope to get cracking on the photos again tomorrow. Can you let us know what format you would like and how much or little information you need, please. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Burbidge Posted 4 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2009 Don't worry, V. I'm working on the 2nd Northamptons! I've been under the weather the last few of days, so I hope to get cracking on the photos again tomorrow. Can you let us know what format you would like and how much or little information you need, please. Steve. It wasn't a hint - I promise! Sorry to hear that you haven't been well. I hope you're feeling better. JPEGs if possible and as much information as you are happy to impart. I'm very grateful. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 4 April , 2009 Share Posted 4 April , 2009 Keep up the good work Victoria Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 Randall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 Barnett, 13th Londons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 barnett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 Turner, 13th Londons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 Turner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 Thanks, Andy. Randall was the only Northampton officer (fatal) casualty I didn't have a picture of ! Is that from a published tome? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 Hi Steve, Yes, he went to Dulwich College, if you need the full size picture let me know. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 I'd better sort some stuff out in exchange, hadn't I? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 Not a problem Steve, time frame on this material is more pressing. Have a few other pictures of Northants men and officers I am sure that you would like. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 8 April , 2009 Share Posted 8 April , 2009 Those of you who know Fromelles will be familiar with the imbalance between the British and Australian history, as it is currently presented. This imbalance has not come about through the fault of either nation, but more through a lack of education within the village itself and the Association. Victoria. I think the imbalance comes about because because British Governments (of whatever political hue) don't give a rats a@*se about it and the Australian Government do! It is only thanks to people like you (well mainly you), who have done something about it, that the British involvement at Fromelles in 1915 is finally getting anything like the recognition it deserves. If anyone going could spare a thought for 2nd Lt Reginal Percy Stoneham (DCM) one of the Old Boys of Whigift Middle School (now Trinity School, Croydon) When war broke out, he was one of the first to volunteer for service with the Indian Expeditionary Force, and he was one of nine motor cyclists to be appointed despatch riders. He was attached to the Lahore Signalling Corps. He was awarded the DCM when as a Corporal for conspicuous gallantry near Laventie, on the 2nd November 1914. "On two occasions he conveyed despatches on foot under heavy howitzer fire (L.G. 1/4/15) On 9th May 1915 the 1st Bn Sherwood Forresters were in the assembly trenches, about 500 yards S. of RUE PETILLON. At 5 a.m. our bombardment started. At 5.35 a.m. B & D Companies of the Bn were getting into position preparatory to supporting the attack of the E. LANCS. Regt. behind the parados, B Company on the left and D Company on the right. At 5.50 am the E. LANCS. started the attack, but, owing to the enemy's heavy machine gun fire, were checked, and our advance was consequently much delayed. This delay was also owing to the difficulty which the E. LANCS. experienced in filing their men through the sally porte. Brigadier-General AWG Lowry Cole was killed between 7.30am and 8.30am being mortally wounded whilst standing on the parapet trying to restore order. He is also buried in Le Trou Aid Post. At 7.30pm the Germans started to shell with high explosives the breastworks occupied by the battalion, causing many casualties among officers and men, and doing considerable damage to the parapet. One shell alone, which landed in the trench where the C.O. and the Adjutant were, killed an R.A. observation officer [name unknown], 2nd Lieut. STONEHAM of this battalion, and wounded 2nd Lts. C. T. WATSON, J. H. STACKHOUSE, and five men. I hope you have a fantastic day and sorry I cannot be there. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Burbidge Posted 8 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2009 I agree completely that we have been terribly reticent, but that’s not the real issue here. The Association was set up for the Australians about twenty years ago. I don’t have the least problem with that. They were visiting Fromelles whilst the majority of us were still trying to work out where great-uncle Fred had died. I have a problem with being told that the person who heads this association has no interest in the British. I had a problem on 11th November 2007 when that person told me that he didn’t need the British; he had the Australians and I certainly had a problem with being told that I was no longer welcome in Fromelles, that my membership of the Association would be terminated and that I would no longer be able to walk the old battlefield. And I had a problem, three weeks ago, when that same person told me that he had no interest in, or intention of, attending our British service in May. And all that for asking if we could see a better balance within the Association and the museum. Some things go beyond even governmental help. Neil, thank you for your kind wishes. I also wish that you could be with us on the 9th, but there will be a sprig of rosemary on Reginald Stoneham’s grave to show that he is still remembered. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted 9 April , 2009 Share Posted 9 April , 2009 Victoria, I for one fully support what you are trying to do. I know Steve has already promised you some material on the 2nd Northants, so don't want to give you more if not required. I have photos and details of two Bergholt lads - Walter Southgate and Andrew Thurlow who were both killed that day, if you are interested. If these would be useful to you, please let me know and I will e-mail over the weekend. Kind Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 9 April , 2009 Share Posted 9 April , 2009 These are 2 of Frank Murrays medals medals . Died with the 1st RIR 9/5/15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 9 April , 2009 Share Posted 9 April , 2009 Victoria, Are you aware that 7th Division also claim this engagement as an Honour? e.g. From the War Diary of the 8th Royal Scots(22nd Brigade,7th Division) 8th May 1915-An attack on German positions near Fromelles by 7th and 8th Divisions was decided on.8th Division was to capture enemy trenches in front of Rue Petillon.7th Division was to carry on the attack 22nd Brigade forming advanced guard of 7th Division.Battalion in Brigade moved by night to Assembly Trenches behind Rue Petillon. 9th May 1915-Attack by 8th Division-Battalion remained in Assembly Trenches all day and moved back with remainder of 22nd Brigade to bivouac at Rouge de Bout. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripit Posted 9 April , 2009 Share Posted 9 April , 2009 I agree completely that we have been terribly reticent, but that's not the real issue here. The Association was set up for the Australians about twenty years ago. I don't have the least problem with that. They were visiting Fromelles whilst the majority of us were still trying to work out where great-uncle Fred had died. I have a problem with being told that the person who heads this association has no interest in the British. I had a problem on 11th November 2007 when that person told me that he didn't need the British; he had the Australians and I certainly had a problem with being told that I was no longer welcome in Fromelles, that my membership of the Association would be terminated and that I would no longer be able to walk the old battlefield. And I had a problem, three weeks ago, when that same person told me that he had no interest in, or intention of, attending our British service in May. And all that for asking if we could see a better balance within the Association and the museum. Some things go beyond even governmental help. Neil, thank you for your kind wishes. I also wish that you could be with us on the 9th, but there will be a sprig of rosemary on Reginald Stoneham's grave to show that he is still remembered. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Burbidge Posted 9 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2009 I have photos and details of two Bergholt lads - Walter Southgate and Andrew Thurlow who were both killed that day, if you are interested. Thank you Mark and yes please. I'll PM my e-mail address through you. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripit Posted 9 April , 2009 Share Posted 9 April , 2009 First i must apologize for the lack lustre attitude of our govenment for there involvement(non) over the Frommells burials and there non representation at any functions between the other govenments who are taking part ( it makes me cringe ) . .. I hope alls go.s well at the service i will not be able to be there my self, as i will be walking from Dunkirk to chebourg at that time with other ex soldiers 25 in total i will arrange for a service stop to add our own thoughts to yours... cossak for our today they gave tommorw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Burbidge Posted 9 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2009 Hello Cossak. It's good to hear from you. Don't be too hard on our government. Things happen sometimes without us even being aware of it and the British are not necessarily terribly good at standing up and shouting when they should. As I understand it, it's all ticking along quite nicely. That's some hike you're taking. Good luck with it. I hope it all goes well. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Burbidge Posted 9 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2009 Are you aware that 7th Division also claim this engagement as an Honour? Yes, indeed George. Marc Thompson and I are currently working our way through pages of SDGW for the 8th Division units. As the casualties sustained by the 7th Division were much lower, we decided to leave these until last, but will be turning our attention to them in due course. All the figures will have been calculated well before the service and exhibition on 9th May. By the time we have completed this project, we hope to have the name of every man who fell at Fromelles on 9th May 1915. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 9 April , 2009 Share Posted 9 April , 2009 Right. I have now got the final sets of pics from the local newspapers I was after. Now just to put them all together. Now, when can I get a long weekend off work? I'll hopefully be able to send you some details this weekend, V. I already have an ongoing (P-Z still to reference to CWGC) spreadsheet of SDGW/CWGC for 2nd Northamptons (along with wounded men from the Times). I'll try and send that as well! I'd best get busy! Steve. P.S. Currently 94%+ with no known graves. That is astonishing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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