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deano

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deano

Hi,

looking to plot this Brigade/Battery through the war.

The only reference i can find for it says it was a war raised unit designated as a Brigade of the 36th Division, and the Brigade was never formed.

I have a soldier who survived the war, F.Hible No L/26435, i have his MIC.

any clues or pointers please.

also what is the L for in his number?

thanks in advance,

Dean.

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jay dubaya

Hi Dean...how's it going?

the 'L' prefix would indicate a locally raised unit. Was he a Sheffield lad? A quick search on SDGW with the number L/264?? gives 4 lads from Sheffield, some with Rotherham connections. The 164th (Rotherham) Howitzer Brigade RFA springs to mind, raised in Rotherham on 9th April 1915.

cheers, Jon

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jay dubaya

One of the lads on SDGW Cpl L/26437 Herbert Smith died serving with D Bty 149th (1st County Palatine) Bde. This brigade was locally raised in Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale and Bury. Cpl Smith was a resident and enlisted in Sheffield,

cheers, Jon

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deano

Hi Jon, cheers for that. Things on the memorial side going brilliantly, got lots more Marsden's if you want them.

On the back side, dont ask!

Yes he was a local lad,

would it be safe to say that Fred Hible then was in the same Brigade as Cpl Smith ?

another clue was that he was gassed at Hill 29, just to the west of St Julien.

Dean.

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deano

Doh ! after more searching, Fred wasn't in the 144 Brigade/Battery, that number from his MIC is his medal roll volume number!

can anyone tell for definite from his regiment number ( L/26435) which brigade/bty he was in?

Remember he was at Hill 29 and he didn't go oversea's untill at least 1916.

Dean.

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SteveE

Dean

This may not help but a quick search of the L/ prefix numbers around Fred's show an entry date into theatre of 30.12.1915. I don't know if one of the resident Artillery experts can translate that date into a particular brigade.

All are 30.12.1915 entries to France unless shown otherwise......

L/26430 - Samuel W. Kyte

L/26431 - Martin Flanagan

L/26432 - Albert Whitmore (No date recorded)

L/26433 - ?

L/26434 - Angus McLachlan

L/26435 - Fred Hible (No date recorded)

L/26436 - Clement Mitchell

L/26437 - Herbert M. Smith

L/26438 - Ernest Smeaton

L/26439 - ?

L/26440 - John Bishop

Steve

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jay dubaya

I think we're looking at 148th -151st Bde's, all locally raised in Lancashire on the 1st April 1915. I think the most likely being the 149th since Cpl Smith is only 2 digits away from Fred and both being Sheffield lads and both enlisting in Sheffield, perhaps there is a Lancashire connection with the families. The above brigades all served with the 30th Division which took part in the Battle of Pilkem, 31st July to 2nd August 1917, Hill 29 I believe lies to the SE of Pilkem.

Do you know which part of Sheffield Fred was from?

cheers, Jon

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deano

SteveE, Jon,

thank you both again, feel i'm getting nearer.

I dont know which part of Sheffield he came from yet Jon.

A bit of background on Fred, at 14 he won an award of a gold watch from the Humane Society for saving the life of a pit pony down the pit !

Dean.

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abdb123

Hi guys sorry to butt in on this thread, Jon you said L/ was for local raised units? would you have any idea were this guys was from just going by his number L-5755

Andrew

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rflory

One has to be quite careful using the L number to try to determine to what brigade a gunner belonged. I have the nominal rolls for a number of the locally-raised brigades and in some cases the numbers are grouped within a range of a 500-800 numbers and in other cases the numbers are completely random an range over a few 10,000 numbers. For example, one brigade has men with "L" numbers between L1 and L800, while another brigade has "L" numbers between L6422 to L45394.

As far as 149th Brigade, RFA is concerned, some may well have "L" numbers in the 264xx range, but I have information that indicates that a gunner who went overseas with 149th Brigade had a regimental number of L9772.

Regards. Dick Flory

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whittle5

hi,i have man with L/2048, He was living in liverpool and his brigade is 148 enlisted 8th feb 1915 might be of some help good luck julie

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Ian Hible

Hello

 

I am not sure if this thread is still "live ", as the last post appears to date back to 2008, but I have only just joined the Great War Forum.

 

In response to Deans query and can confirm that my great uncle,Fred Hible came from High Green near Sheffield and originally enlisted with the 164th Rotherham Howitzer Brigade ( source 13th June 1916 article in Sheffield Daily Telegraph ) and appeared in the weekly casualty list dated September 24th 1918.

 

He was demobilised in February 1919 ( article in Sheffield Daily Telegraph ) and returned to work as a miner.

 

His name appears on a memorial plaque in Methodist Church in High Green, along with those of three of his brothers who served in the Royal Navy , York and Lancaster Regiment , and Leicestershire Regiment.

 

Hope this may still be of interest.

 

Ian

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David Porter

Welcome to the Forum Ian,

 

Your great uncle's number (L/26435) would indicate he joined 164th Brigade RFA at Rotherham around May 30, 1915. Obviously, his enlistment in Sheffield would have been a day or two earlier. 

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Ian Hible

David 

 

Thanks for the guidance.

 

I have downloaded the 164th Brigade and 168th Brigade RFA war diaries, as I gather from reading articles on the Long Long Trail, the 164th was broken up in September 1916 and batteries transferred to the 168th.

 

I have only just started reading them, but from what I have discovered so far ( I am only up to end of Dec 1915 / early Jan 1916 )it seems the 164th trained near Salisbury and sailed to Le Havre on the 30/31 Dec 1915.

 

I am interested to find where they served and what actions they were involved with.

 

regards 

 

Ian 

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David Porter
50 minutes ago, Ian Hible said:

I gather from reading articles on the Long Long Trail, the 164th was broken up in September 1916 and batteries transferred to the 168th.

 

Ian,

 

It was rather more complex than that. Being a Howitzer brigade it was redistributed on May 26, 1916.

 

A (H)/164 Bty became D (H)/155 Bty
B (H)/164 Bty became D (H)/161 Bty
C (H)/164 Bty became D (H)/164 Bty but then became D (H)/168 on September 17, 1916
D (H)/164 Bty had already left and joined 1/4th West Riding (Howitzer) Brigade RFA (TF), 49th Division, on February 16, 1916

 

1 hour ago, Ian Hible said:

it seems the 164th trained near Salisbury and sailed to Le Havre on the 30/31 Dec 1915.

 

Fred Hible did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star, only members of B (H)/164 Bty did. Also, similar enlistment dates were placed in A (H)/164 Bty, so you may like to concentrate on D (H)/155 Bty from May 26, 1916.

 

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Ian Hible

David

 

Thanks for the insight. That should avoid many hours of frustrating research.

 

regards

 

Ian

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Ron Clifton

Hello all

 

I have compiled details of all the brigade and battery swaps in every British division. If anyone wants a copy relating to a particular division or RFA brigade, you are welcome to send me a pm and I will give you details in the form of a Word document.

 

Not till after the coming week, though, please!

 

Ron

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