Princess Mary gift pipe.

[Wardog]

I know these pipes were not of a set type but I guess they would have been of a size to fit the tin. I have looked at other posts and wonder if anyone else has pictures or info. on pipes thought to have been issued. Thanks, Paul.

[John Thorne]

Paul,

Here are two pictures of original tins with contents, pipe, and lighter. As you see, the pipe and lighter didn't come in the tin, but together with it in a cardboard box. As I understand it, the pipes were purchased as required and were whatever types were available at the time. Unfortunately for me, these aren't mine, but they do belong to a friend. I'm sure he won't mind my sharing these pictures.

[Simon Jones]

There is an article and photo in the latest Bulletin of the Western Front Assocation.

S

[centurion]

Not a bad pipe for the days when the majority of working men still had to make do with a clay pipe (which would be very prone to breakage).

[Wardog]

Thank you for the info and pictures. I have read the WFA Bulletin which mentions the pipe coming with 'the stem slotted into a card insert'-hence I thought it came in the tin like the bullet pencil. Interesting it states that the bullet pencil holder was silver for only the Navy.

[centurion]

Interesting it states that the bullet pencil holder was silver for only the Navy.

Funny that, as a lad I sometimes used to visit, with my parents, a family connection (some sort of very remote cousin at some level) and he had a silver bullet pencil on his mantel piece but I never connected it with a WW1 gift box. He had been RNVR (I think) in WWII and definitely served at D Day with the navy (commanding a rocket launching converted landing craft) but thinking about it he would have been old enough to have seen WW1 service.

[Wardog]

Sorry, I should say it is refering to the hollow detachable 'head' being silver for the Navy, the remainder a standard brass .303 case. I was a bit unclear in what I typed. Paul.

[centurion]

Aha then the one I remember was something different being completely silver, case and all, obviously specially made - perhaps as a souvenir.

[ian_george]

I've been watching for Princess Mary stuff on Ebay for years and I've never seen anything other than silver pencils (marked sterling) inside brass shell cases marked with M-R monogram -- so my assumption is that all of the pencils were made this way (since I've seen literally hundreds of these over a period of 5 years or more).

I've also seen a few of the very rare brass lighters that were marked with the M-R monogram.

Royalty website gives a very good description and a good picture of the original contents

http://www.royal.gov.uk/OutPut/Page4768.asp

I've also seen a couple of writing sets marked M-R and I believe that these were also part of the Princess Mary gift fund -- apparently given to non-smokers, but these are the rarest of mary items as far as I know

[ian_george]

Here's the Ebay item number for a Princess Mary monogrammed writing set that sold recently.

Can't find one for a pipe right now, sorry

200208328269

[Ghost]

Looking around an antique shop today. They were selling a Princess Mary tin, the tin was split in one corner , and probably empty. Could not make out the price before I was dragged off. Any one take a stab at a reasonable price for an empty tin?

[mark holden]

£15-30 depending on the dealer and condition you might be lucky and get a bargain on ebay I have occasionally seen them sell for less than £10

Looking around an antique shop today. They were selling a Princess Mary tin, the tin was split in one corner , and probably empty. Could not make out the price before I was dragged off. Any one take a stab at a reasonable price for an empty tin?

[59165]

£15-30 depending on the dealer and condition you might be lucky and get a bargain on ebay I have occasionally seen them sell for less than £10

Salut,mon Colonel.

I was lucky enough to get 3 for 25 quid.One was spotless,the other 2 were ok condition.

Job lot on ebay.

Dave.

[mark holden]

Dave good find! I saw one go at auction for a tenner at a local auction on the other hand I know of a dealer, Antique type, who caharges £60 a tin and they are all highly polished!

[bootneck]

Sorry to take this topic slightly off at a tangent, but are you aware of the pipes Queen Alexandra sent out to the Army and Navy during the Boer War.

I have recently been investigating the gift of some tobacco pipes by Queen Alexandra to troops in South Africa and had assumed it was a Christmas gift. This assumption was reinforced by replies received from a number of military museums, until I received a reply from the Royal Archives that contained the following information:

"Apparently, in the winter of 1901, Queen Alexandra sent 5,500 pipes, each with a silver band round the stem with Queen Alexandra's monogram on it, to be given to representative of the soldiers and sailors serving in South Africa.

Those for distribution to the Army were sent to Lord Kitchener, and were given first to Warrant Officers, Staff Sergeants, Sergeants, and specially distinguished soldiers. The remainder were distributed on a proportional basis, 15 to each Cavalry regiment, 22 to each Infantry battalion, and 18 to each Militia Infantry battalion. Unfortunately, it seems no central record was kept of those to whom the pipes were given."

According to John Davis, The History of The Second Queen’s now (Royal West Surrey Regiment), volume v, 1837-1905 (London, 1906) page 266:

‘A small draft of 33 Non-commissioned Officers and men joined on 2nd February [1902], bringing 22 pipes presented by Her Majesty Queen Victoria[!] for distribution to the best men of the Battalion.’

This reply was based on information supplied to them by the War Office Library in answer to a similar request forwarded to the Royal Archives a number of years ago.

A search was then made in the digest of service of the 2nd Battalion, The Queen’s Royal West Surrey Regiment, 1857-1919 (our reference: 7502/152) and the following information was found:

QUEEN’S PIPES: Twenty two pipes were received for “Her Majesty The Queen Alexandia” and were distributed as follows:

Company Regimental Number Rank Name

Staff Sergeant Major Robinson

Staff Sergeant Master Cook Weston

A 2902 Colour Sergeant J E Hawkes

A 5635 Private G Crabb

B 1950 Colour Sergeant J ? Davies

B 4197 Sergeant H Penny

C 4382 Sergeant N Smith

C 5225 Sergeant A Stemp

D 4038 Sergeant E Thorne

D 3086 Private H Roberts

E 2326 Colour Sergeant C M Barrett

E 3741 Private F E King

F 5073 Sergeant A Burnes

F 5145 Private A Benfield

G 787 Colour Sergeant W Ewer

G 4025 Sergeant J Osborne

H 911 Colour Sergeant R Routley

H 1152 Private L Denyer

K 3632 Colour Sergeant J Balchin

K 7541 Sergeant E Croker

Mounted Infantry 5543 Corporal W Smith

Mounted Infantry 4646 Private E Buckmaster

There is no date given but comes within entries for early 1902. The queen’s name appears to have been miss-pelt.

While talking to Paul Baillie, a well known researcher, at TNA, I mentioned the award of these pipes and he told me he had come across the award of what he & other researchers had thought were ‘bagpipes’ to the Scottish Horse in 1902. He kindly sent me a page titled Notes on Queen Alexandra’s Pipe from a book by John E. Price Southern Cross Scots (Australia, 1992) from which the following information held in the Regimental Museum Archives at Dunkeld is quoted:

H. M. Queen Alexandra decided to award pipes to senior non-commissioned officers, serving in South Africa, and, on 27th January 1902, the following conditions regarding the distribution of the pipes were issued from the Assistant Adjutant General’s Office, Pretoria:

‘The pipes should be given to Warrant Officers, Staff Sergeants, and Sergeants as far as possible in order of seniority, or to specially selected soldiers who have performed distinguished service in the field. You will please forward to me at your earliest convenience a list of names, in duplicate, of those to whom you propose to present the pipes, giving regimental number, rank and full name……the reasons for the selection should be briefly stated against each name. Upon receipt of this list……the pipes will be forwarded to the Depot of your regiment where they will be issued to the recipient under Regimental arrangement. The signature of the recipient being taken in each case. The recipient’s receipts will be forwarded to this office.’

The Officer Commanding, 2nd Scottish Horse returned the completed list on 8th March 1902.

Does anybody have any more information about these pipes, particularly those awarded to the Navy.

regards

Bootneck

[Guest Meroe]

Hi Bootneck

I'm currently trying to write an article on one of these Queen Alexandra pipes and found your notes really useful. It's been a while since you posted this information - I wondered if you'd managed to find out anything else about them?

I've tracked down lots of newspaper articles talking about the pipes being distributed but haven't found out any more.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Meroe

Sorry to take this topic slightly off at a tangent, but are you aware of the pipes Queen Alexandra sent out to the Army and Navy during the Boer War.

I have recently been investigating the gift of some tobacco pipes by Queen Alexandra to troops in South Africa and had assumed it was a Christmas gift. This assumption was reinforced by replies received from a number of military museums, until I received a reply from the Royal Archives that contained the following information:

"Apparently, in the winter of 1901, Queen Alexandra sent 5,500 pipes, each with a silver band round the stem with Queen Alexandra's monogram on it, to be given to representative of the soldiers and sailors serving in South Africa.

Those for distribution to the Army were sent to Lord Kitchener, and were given first to Warrant Officers, Staff Sergeants, Sergeants, and specially distinguished soldiers. The remainder were distributed on a proportional basis, 15 to each Cavalry regiment, 22 to each Infantry battalion, and 18 to each Militia Infantry battalion. Unfortunately, it seems no central record was kept of those to whom the pipes were given."

According to John Davis, The History of The Second Queen's now (Royal West Surrey Regiment), volume v, 1837-1905 (London, 1906) page 266:

'A small draft of 33 Non-commissioned Officers and men joined on 2nd February [1902], bringing 22 pipes presented by Her Majesty Queen Victoria[!] for distribution to the best men of the Battalion.'

This reply was based on information supplied to them by the War Office Library in answer to a similar request forwarded to the Royal Archives a number of years ago.

A search was then made in the digest of service of the 2nd Battalion, The Queen's Royal West Surrey Regiment, 1857-1919 (our reference: 7502/152) and the following information was found:

QUEEN'S PIPES: Twenty two pipes were received for "Her Majesty The Queen Alexandia" and were distributed as follows:

Company Regimental Number Rank Name

Staff Sergeant Major Robinson

Staff Sergeant Master Cook Weston

A 2902 Colour Sergeant J E Hawkes

A 5635 Private G Crabb

B 1950 Colour Sergeant J ? Davies

B 4197 Sergeant H Penny

C 4382 Sergeant N Smith

C 5225 Sergeant A Stemp

D 4038 Sergeant E Thorne

D 3086 Private H Roberts

E 2326 Colour Sergeant C M Barrett

E 3741 Private F E King

F 5073 Sergeant A Burnes

F 5145 Private A Benfield

G 787 Colour Sergeant W Ewer

G 4025 Sergeant J Osborne

H 911 Colour Sergeant R Routley

H 1152 Private L Denyer

K 3632 Colour Sergeant J Balchin

K 7541 Sergeant E Croker

Mounted Infantry 5543 Corporal W Smith

Mounted Infantry 4646 Private E Buckmaster

There is no date given but comes within entries for early 1902. The queen's name appears to have been miss-pelt.

While talking to Paul Baillie, a well known researcher, at TNA, I mentioned the award of these pipes and he told me he had come across the award of what he & other researchers had thought were 'bagpipes' to the Scottish Horse in 1902. He kindly sent me a page titled Notes on Queen Alexandra's Pipe from a book by John E. Price Southern Cross Scots (Australia, 1992) from which the following information held in the Regimental Museum Archives at Dunkeld is quoted:

H. M. Queen Alexandra decided to award pipes to senior non-commissioned officers, serving in South Africa, and, on 27th January 1902, the following conditions regarding the distribution of the pipes were issued from the Assistant Adjutant General's Office, Pretoria:

'The pipes should be given to Warrant Officers, Staff Sergeants, and Sergeants as far as possible in order of seniority, or to specially selected soldiers who have performed distinguished service in the field. You will please forward to me at your earliest convenience a list of names, in duplicate, of those to whom you propose to present the pipes, giving regimental number, rank and full name……the reasons for the selection should be briefly stated against each name. Upon receipt of this list……the pipes will be forwarded to the Depot of your regiment where they will be issued to the recipient under Regimental arrangement. The signature of the recipient being taken in each case. The recipient's receipts will be forwarded to this office.'

The Officer Commanding, 2nd Scottish Horse returned the completed list on 8th March 1902.

Does anybody have any more information about these pipes, particularly those awarded to the Navy.

regards

Bootneck