Nigel Marshall Posted 25 March , 2008 Share Posted 25 March , 2008 Hi, This picture was given to me after it was saved from the bin during a clear out at a friend's office in Belfast. The men are unnamed but I post the picture here for the interest value it may have. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 31 March , 2008 Share Posted 31 March , 2008 Hello Nigel, There is nothing on the chaps uniforms to indicate that they are RMLC, or who the chaps are. The collar dogs are the standard RM 'Globe and Laurel'. If you could see the cap badge, it would be a one peace brass item as I have illustrated. The uniform they are wearing is the standard fatigue blues, but what I do find rather strange is the lack of right hand side pockets! Looking at the shoulder title, your chaps are actually in the RMLI = Royal Marine Light Infantry. Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 31 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2008 Hi Seph, Thanks for your reply.... Many have looked but none have said anything! The only point that I am sure of on the uniform is the shoulder titles. When I was scanning the photo I couldn't blow up the one on the seated man's right shoulder without distortion, so I resorted to using the Mk 1 eyeball and jewellers loupe and the last letter is a 'C' rather than an 'I'. Should there be other identifying badges such as crossed pick and rifle? I'll have another pop at blowing up the relevant portion of the photo and come back with the results. There was another thread on the forum showing two old soldiers, possibly marines I can't remember, but both wore the Egypt Medal & Khedives Star pair from the 1880s. Both men wore a tunic with the single pocket. The photo's seem to be from the same era, but there is of course nothing on my photo to date it specifically. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 31 March , 2008 Share Posted 31 March , 2008 The only problem with an 1880s date is that the RMLC was a WW1 or post-WW1 organisation. The RMLC (also known as RMLC (Old)) served in France from formation in February 1917 until early 1919. The RMLC No.1 (Home Service) Labour Company also formed in 1917 to handle sea mines at Mining Depot, was demobilised in 1919. The RMLC (New) was formed well after the end of the war in late 1919. Attestation papers for the latter group (over 1,400 strong) are held at the FAAM. All three groups had different Register Number series: Deal/5 figures (S); Chatham/5 figures (S) and Deal/1-4 figures (N), respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 31 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2008 Horatio, Sorry, I wasn't particularly clear that with the reference to the 1880s I was meaning that this was when the Egypt pair of medals was awarded. I wasn't making any assertion that the two old soldiers were RMLC or that they were photographed in the 1880s. My apologies for the confusion. The photo was either of two old marines or two old Coldstreamers I cant remember which. The photo - given the ages of the two men (late 40s - early 50s) - would suggest a date of around 1900 - 1910. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 31 March , 2008 Share Posted 31 March , 2008 The only thing I would comment on is the disparity in their sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 31 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2008 Well Tom, The back of the card doesn't say Syd and Eddie, but it does say 'Carte Postale'. A clue methinks? Given his size, the big lad was always going to get the chair wasn't he? Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 31 March , 2008 Share Posted 31 March , 2008 There is a long list of things of which I know zilch and I'm afraid the Royal Marines are in there. I did wonder though if this is the tallest and the smallest in the company/battalion/regiment.... sort of thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 2 April , 2008 Share Posted 2 April , 2008 'truthergw'... A good suggestion you have there! That sort of thing was prevalant. However, from studying the facial features of both chaps, I would suggest that these two are closely related. Dogflud.... some good info you posted there.. thank you. Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted 9 August , 2015 Share Posted 9 August , 2015 Sorry to jump into this thread, but i also have a photograph, which i have been told is of the Royal Marines Labour Corps. Can you please confirm or deny this, and can you tell whether it is pre or post WW1, also where this photo was taken. Thanks in Advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 9 August , 2015 Share Posted 9 August , 2015 They appear to be too young to be RMLC, which enlisted older men for work in the docks. Nor did they wear that uniform and carry rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 9 August , 2015 Share Posted 9 August , 2015 This doesn't add to the knowledge of the pictures but a some men serving in the ASC were transferred to the RMLC at some point. I've seen a 1914-15 trio with the star named to the ASC & the pair to him with a DEAL-****S in the RM. Had copies of the MIC & the medal rolls both confirming the change of service. The medal roll page had a dozen names on it all ASC to RM with DEAL #s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 10 August , 2015 Share Posted 10 August , 2015 The RMLC (Old) was initially formed on 2 February 1917 by the transfer of two companies of the ASC, at the same time as opening recruitment (mainly in the English ports) to men over 42 years of age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 10 August , 2015 Share Posted 10 August , 2015 The RMLC (Old) was initially formed on 2 February 1917 by the transfer of two companies of the ASC, at the same time as opening recruitment (mainly in the English ports) to men over 42 years of age Thanks for that info on the ASC men going to the RMLC. I wonder how the ASC men felt when told congratulations, you are all now Royal Marines!! Do you know the ASC companies that were shifted? I mean did they have a number designation such as 77Co, ASC or such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 11 August , 2015 Share Posted 11 August , 2015 Number not known but they were designated ASC (Naval Labour) Companies when formed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scousegirl Posted 23 April , 2023 Share Posted 23 April , 2023 (edited) Have just discovered that my grandfather James Williams was in the RMLC. This came as a big surprise as his death certificate from 1921 clearly states he was an ex-private from the 4th Batt. King's Liverpool Regiment. Using recently acquired Pension Ledger records, it seem he started out in the KLR, was discharged in 1915 due to a foot malformation and then at some point winds up in the RMLC. I am certain this is the correct person, as his wife and children are all listed. I am attaching the records that I have. I notice that some records are described as being available from FAAM. At the risk of sounding stupid, just what does FAAM stand for? Edited 23 April , 2023 by Scousegirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 23 April , 2023 Share Posted 23 April , 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Scousegirl said: Have just discovered that my grandfather James Williams was in the RMLC. This came as a big surprise as his death certificate from 1921 clearly states he was an ex-private from the 4th Batt. King's Liverpool Regiment. Using recently acquired Pension Ledger records, it seem he started out in the KLR, was discharged in 1915 due to a foot malformation and then at some point winds up in the RMLC. I am certain this is the correct person, as his wife and children are all listed. I am attaching the records that I have. I notice that some records are described as being available from FAAM. At the risk of sounding stupid, just what does FAAM stand for? Hi Scousegirl. FAAM is Fleet Air Arm Museum as in fleetairarm.com Edited 23 April , 2023 by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 23 April , 2023 Share Posted 23 April , 2023 There are certain records that are held at FAAM Yeovilton that are of interest to those researching Royal Marines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 April , 2023 Share Posted 24 April , 2023 (edited) The FAAM does not hold records for the Royal Marines Labour Corps (Old Formation) in which James Williams served as Deal/10569(S). He was discharged invalided on 27 June 1917 according to the ADM 313/2 Index at TNA - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C530692 . TNA hold his RMLC service papers under ADM 157 but theseare not online. - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C15447840 The RM Medal Roll shows entitlement to Victory and British War Medals but these were not claimed or issued. Edited 24 April , 2023 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 24 April , 2023 Share Posted 24 April , 2023 Interestingly, RMLC (New Formation) records are available online from TNA, but have been catalogued under the general heading of “Royal Marines Divisional Engineers: Deal” (ADM-159-122). This unit was raised post-Armistice and were involved in a lot of dismantling and clearing-up work, mainly in the ports of Calais, Southampton and Dover. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 April , 2023 Share Posted 24 April , 2023 Indeed. I have lost count of the times I have notified TNA about the mis-description of the RMLC(N) records in ADM 159. They give the lame excuse that "that is the way they were desribed by MOD on handover". And we all know that the MOD is infallible. Unlike the RMLC (Old Formation), the FAAM does hold more than 1,400 attestation packs for the RMLC (New Formation). There are no ledger records surviving for the Old Formation in ADM 159 at TNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 24 April , 2023 Share Posted 24 April , 2023 2 hours ago, horatio2 said: The RM Medal Roll shows entitlement to Victory and British War Medals but these were not claimed or issued. In which case, the family should be able to apply for them to be re-issued. (Ts & Cs apply) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scousegirl Posted 24 April , 2023 Share Posted 24 April , 2023 (edited) What a fascinating group of replies to find waiting today! I thought just finding out what FAAM was would be answer enough but you've gone above and beyond! I can't thank you all enough. What with the common name and the loss of records during WW2 I thought I would never be able to find out anything about my grandfather's service. Until I got the pension ledger card, I didn't even know his service number. I will be checking TNA next, as advised by horatio2. If the family were interested in applying for his medals, can you tell me how would I go about it? Edited 24 April , 2023 by Scousegirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 24 April , 2023 Share Posted 24 April , 2023 If there is evidence that WW1 campaign medals were issued in the post, and the medals were returned by the postman, the MOD will reissue medals. This is straightforward with army medals. I do not believe that a belated claim for your grandfather's unissued medals would meet the MOD policy for WW1 campaign medal issuance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 April , 2023 Share Posted 24 April , 2023 It is also important to remember that, unlike Army medals that were isssued by the War Office , the Admiralty only issued medals if they were claimed (by the individual or his representative e.g. next-of-kin if deceased). The Admiralty (RM) Medal Roll shows, as previously stated, that he never bothered to claim his medals. Without a claim his medals could not be "issued in the post, and ... returned by the postman". In this case, I believe, the MOD would not entertain a late claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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