Guest Hill 60 Posted 24 January , 2003 Share Posted 24 January , 2003 Can anyone expand on the following (taken from British Regiments 1914-1918 by Brigadier E. A. James): '4/8/14 Ardeer. Very little information is available about this Company. It was formed in 1913 by Nobel's Explosives Company to guard their factory at Adeer in the event of war. In 1913 & 1914 it went to annual camp with 4th Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers. On, or before, mobilization it was on guard duty in the explosives factory at Ardeer. It appears to have been disbanded in Nov 1914 so that all ranks could go back to their important work in the factory, having handed over the guard duties to a Company of the Scottish Rifles. However, the Company is still shown in the Army List for Nov 1918 with 5 Officers. It was not reformed after the war.' I was hoping someone might know the names of the 5 Officers mentioned in the Army List (Nov 1918) or even if any of the men from the Company are known to have been casualties. Many thanks in advance for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted 24 January , 2003 Share Posted 24 January , 2003 Hello Lee, According to Frederick's Lineage Book of British Land Forces 1660-1978, Vol 1. Page 255. Royal Scots Fusiliers, Territorials, The Adeer Company: Formed 1/11/1912 at Nobel's Explosive Works. Embodied 4/8/1914. Personnel discharged 11/1914 and unit not reconstituted. This still do not answer why they were shown in the Army List! Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 24 January , 2003 Share Posted 24 January , 2003 Ray Westlake in his book 'The Territorial Battalions' says 'The company is not shown in 'The army list' after 1922. Ardeer is 3 miles North of Irvine, Ayrshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 25 January , 2003 Share Posted 25 January , 2003 Arthur - David - Thanks for the info. I have a feeling that this is going to be one of those research projects that is going to suffer from lack of information. I don't suppose anyone knows if they wore the RSF cap badge or if they had a 'factory' badge? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted 25 January , 2003 Share Posted 25 January , 2003 Lee, I have checked the information that I have regarding their insignia and have found nothing. However, I would presume that they wore the RSF insignia beings they were a classed as a Territorial unit of that Regiment. The Scottish Military Collector's Society might be able to help you more with this quest! Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 25 January , 2003 Share Posted 25 January , 2003 Arthur - Cheers for that, I think I just saw the Scottish Military Collector's Society on the web a few minutes ago whilst I was browsing, I'll go & have another look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 25 January , 2003 Share Posted 25 January , 2003 Lee They did have their own metal shoulder title. I am scanning now and will e-mail you direct a page from Ray Westlake's 'Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 26 January , 2003 Share Posted 26 January , 2003 Lee This unit features in the Scottish Command Defence Scheme of 1912. This was intended to deal with the threat of raids on the east coast and Clyde estuary, rather than a full scale invasion. Ardeer is on the Clyde coast (near Ardrossan). There are no other similar units in the defence scheme. The guard force for other locations was to be found by 'normal' TF or regular units. I would guess the reason for such a unit is the vulnerable location of an important factory combined with a large number of potential recruits in the work force. Jock Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 26 January , 2003 Share Posted 26 January , 2003 HP and Jock - Many thanks for the info. My partner and I are going to Kilmarnock in the next few months to visit her family so I'll have a rummage around in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 26 January , 2003 Share Posted 26 January , 2003 Lee You may wish to write to the company at the following address: ICI Nobels Explosives Company Ltd Stevenston KA20 3LN Ayrshire. During the latter half of the 1980's I visited the factory a number of times found them most helpful and knowledgeable about the history of the factory. They still make military products. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 26 January , 2003 Share Posted 26 January , 2003 I did some research a while back on the 4 / RSF who lost some men during an engagement at Dueidar in the Sinai desert in April 1916 (the same time as the action which claimed the Worcs Hussars and Glos Yeomanry at Qatia) during a Turkish attack to pre-empt the movement across the desert towards Palestine. I made the following fairly poorly referenced pile of notes - my study habits have improved a bit since! Ardeer cropped up in most of the 4 / RSF details. Buchan, John. The History of the Royal Scots Fusiliers, 1678-1918, published 1925. Kemp, J.C. The History of the Royal Scots Fusiliers, 1919-1959, published 1963. A Soldier's History: The Story of the Royal Highland Fusiliers, published by the Regimental Museum. Roll of Honour: The Royal Scots Fusiliers, Scottish National War Memorial, The Castle, Edinburgh. Battalion War Diaries in the Public Record Office, Kew, London VC winners Private G. Ravenhill 2nd Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers 1899 South Africa Private R. Lauder 4th Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers 1915 Gallipoli 2nd Lt J.M. Craig 5th Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers 1917 Gaza 2nd Lt S.H.P. Boughey 4th Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers 1917 Jerusalem Sgt T. Caldwell 12th Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers 1918 Western Front The Ardeer Company was formed in 1913 by the Nobel Explosives Factory at Ardeer Works near Irvine and attached to 4th Bn RSF. Ardeer - The Factory Nobel's Explosives Company and its successor ICI have been part of Ayrshire's economy for over 125 years. There can be few people in the area whose life has not been touched by that enterprise. The Nobel Explosive Factory at Ardeer once sustained the economies of the Three Towns (Ardrossan, Saltcoats and Stevenston) and neighbouring Kilwinning. At its peak, the factory employed 12,700 people. The Nobel Trust plan to create a huge interactive family tree of Nobel's Explosives people and need help from ex-workers and their families. If you or a member of your family worked for Nobel's Explosives or ICI at any of the Ardeer factories, then you could help The Nobel Trust to build that family tree. This is intended to become an important part of the "Big Idea" Millennium project. The Big Idea will be situated on the tip of the Ardeer peninsula opposite Irvine Harbour and will feature a Hundred Years of Nobel Laureates, a Millennium of Invention and the History of Explosions, explaining the big ideas of the past, but more importantly, the big ideas of tomorrow. Forms for submitting family details are available from Irvine, Stevenston and Kilwinning libraries or from the Nobel Exhibition Trust, McGowan House, Lundholm Road, Stevenston, Ayrshire, KA20 3LJ; Telephone 01294 461999. http://home.clara.net/iainkerr/genuki/AYR/...ston/ardeer.htm Douglas Grant served 32 years in the British Fire service, the last ten years at the rank of Divisional Officer in Strathclyde Fire Brigade, the UK's second largest Brigade. He joined the South Western Area Fire Brigade in 1966 and as a leading fire-fighter was based at Ardrossan Fire Station which covered the ICI Nylon Plant, Shell Refinery and the Nobel Explosives Factory at Ardeer. http://www.ific.co.uk/ific/cvs/douglas.htm Explosives in the Service of Man: Ardeer & the Nobel Heritage RCAHMS 1996, £5.00 available from RCAHMS In 1871, Alfred Nobel brought the newly-born high-explosives industry to Britain, establishing, with the backing of Scottish entrepreneurs, the country's first dynamite factory at Ardeer on the west coast of Scotland in Ayrshire. In its time, Ardeer grew to become the largest explosives factory in the world, and was one of the principal driving forces behind the creation of ICI in 1926 Through the publication of this book, The Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland (RCAHMS) and ICI Explosives wish to acknowledge the debt that Scotland, the United Kingdom and the World owes to Alfred Bernhard Nobel http://www.rcahms.gov.uk/nmrs/publication11.html Address: RCAHMS John Sinclair House, 16 Bernard Terrace, Edinburgh, EH8 9NX Telephone: 0131 - 662 1456 Fax: 0131 - 662 1499/1477 email: Memorials: Statue in the gardens west of County Buildings Ayr. In 1901 when the RSF adopted tarten trews they wore the Government (Black Watch) sett with a blue line added. Regmental Depot, Churchill Barracks, Ayr. Gould p. 20 4th and 5th Gallipoli 7 June 1915. Egypt 4 Feb 16 - 17. Palestine 17 - 18 F/F 17 Apr 18 1st/4th Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers: Cochrane, Hugh, 9110, Pte., k.i.a. Palestine 23/4/1916 H COCHRANE Private 9110 1st/4th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916 KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 109. Haney, Patrick, 8273, Pte., k.i.a. Palestine 23/4/1916 PATRICK HANEY Private 8273 1st/4th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. Age 19. Son of the late Charles and Catherine Coffey Haney, of Ayrshire. Born at Paisley, Renfrewshire. KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 70. Major, Thomas, 8585, Pte., k.i.a. Palestine 23/4/1916 T MAJOR Private 8585 1st/4th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 107. Shields, George, 8260, Sgt., k.i.a. Palestine 23/4/1916 G SHIELDS Serjeant 8260 1st/4th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 144. Wallace, John, 7581, Pte., k.i.a. Palestine 23/4/1916 J WALLACE Private 7581 1st/4th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. 1st/5th Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers: Alexander, Archibald, 7611, Cpl., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 ARCHIBALD TAYLOR ALEXANDER Corporal 7611 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. Age 21. Son of Hugh and Annie Alexander, of 8, Kyle Terrace, Irvine, Ayrshire KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 220. Donaghy, Andrew, 7157, Pte., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 A DONAGHY Lance Corporal 7157 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916 KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 142 Donnelly, Joseph, 7034, Pte., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 J DONNELLY Private 7034 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. Age 21. Son of James Donnelly, of South Wellington, Vancouver Island, British Columbia. Native of Galston, Ayrshire KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 181. Hay, Hugh, 7692, Cpl., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 H HAY Corporal 7693 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 214 Lyon, Duncan, 7800, Pte., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 D LYON Private 7800 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916 KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 216 MacDonald, William 7208, Pte., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 W McDONALD Private 7208 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. Age 32. Son of Donald M. and Annie McDonald, of 14, South St., Grantown-on-Spey, Inverness-shire. KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 183 McCullouch, James, 7733, Pte., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 J McCULLOCH Private 7733 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916 KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 177. McGill, Robert, 7252, Pte., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 R McGILL Private 7252 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916 KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 140 McKean, Robert, 7197, Pte., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 R McKEAN Private 7197 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. Age 25. Son of William and Margaret McKean, of 3, Culyean Terrace, Prestwick, Ayrshire KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 179. Orr, John, 7063, Sgt., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 J ORR Serjeant 7063 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 218. Stewart, Robert Crawford, 5718, Sgt., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 R C STEWART Serjeant 5718 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 255. Thornton, James, 9270, Pte., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 J THORNTON Private 9270 1st/5th Bn., Royal Scots Fusiliers who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916 KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY, Egypt F. 257 Army Ordnance Corps: Wilson, Harry, A/1233, Armourer Sergeant, k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 HARRY WILSON Staff Serjeant A/1233 Armourer Royal Army Ordnance Corps attd., Worcestershire Regiment who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. JERUSALEM MEMORIAL, Israel Army Service Corps: Wood, John Simpson, T/32424, Dvr., k.i.a. Egypt 23/4/1916 J S WOOD Driver T/32424 Army Service Corps who died on Sunday, 23rd April 1916. Age 21. Horse Transport, Son of James Simpson Wood and Jeanie Wood, of 42, Brunswick Rd., Edinburgh. Born at Ayton, Berwickshire. I am fairly confident that the AOC and ASC men were connected with the action, as they were both Scottish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 27 January , 2003 Share Posted 27 January , 2003 Terry - Thanks for the address, I'll get onto them ASAP. Simon - Wow! Thanks for all the info, it makes a great excuse for me to stop decorating the front room and having a look at all you've given me!! Many thanks to all those who have helped me out with this query. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 27 January , 2003 Share Posted 27 January , 2003 Lee, it would be interesting (to me at least) to know if the Ardeer Coy was called out during the precautionary period i.e. before general mobilisation of the TF. Some TF men served in the Special Service Sectionswith a commitment to serve before general mobilisation. To quote from 1912 TF Regs 'The conditions for service in the Special Service Section will be as follows: (a) They will engage to serve in case of national emergency, when called upon to do so under the authority of the Secretary of State, for a period not exceeding one mouth, in the coast defences or other specified place mentioned in their agreement, even though no order calling out the Territorial Force for actual military service is in force at the time. ' The 1912 Scottish Defence Scheme lists all the locations to be guarded during the precautionary period and after the outbreak of war, showing the number of men and the providing unit for each (in most cases the guard during the precautionary period is provided by TF SSS men, with another unit taking over after general mobilisation) ............. except in the case of Ardeer, where no numbers are recorded for either period and there is simply a remark saying 'One coy 4 RSF, permanently stationed at this works'. I think the SSS were called out very late in Jul 14 - 29th or 30th. Interested in anything you turn up. Jock Bruce (with acknowledgements to Charles Messenger and Joe Sweeny) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 27 January , 2003 Share Posted 27 January , 2003 Lee, it would be interesting (to me at least) to know if the Ardeer Coy was called out during the precautionary period i.e. before general mobilisation of the TF. Some TF men served in the Special Service Sectionswith a commitment to serve before general mobilisation. To quote from 1912 TF Regs 'The conditions for service in the Special Service Section will be as follows: (a) They will engage to serve in case of national emergency, when called upon to do so under the authority of the Secretary of State, for a period not exceeding one mouth, in the coast defences or other specified place mentioned in their agreement, even though no order calling out the Territorial Force for actual military service is in force at the time. ' The 1912 Scottish Defence Scheme lists all the locations to be guarded during the precautionary period and after the outbreak of war, showing the number of men and the providing unit for each (in most cases the guard during the precautionary period is provided by TF SSS men, with another unit taking over after general mobilisation) ............. except in the case of Ardeer, where no numbers are recorded for either period and there is simply a remark saying 'One coy 4 RSF, permanently stationed at this works'. I think the SSS were called out very late in Jul 14 - 29th or 30th. Interested in anything you turn up. Jock Bruce (with acknowledgements to Charles Messenger and Joe Sweeny) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 27 January , 2003 Share Posted 27 January , 2003 And sorry for the double tap .......... Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 28 January , 2003 Share Posted 28 January , 2003 The Precautionary Period began on 29 July 1914. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 28 January , 2003 Share Posted 28 January , 2003 Jock - I will endeavour to find out if they were called out but only (as I've been told by the Better Half') when I have finished decorating!!! Charles - Thanks for the date. I only asked the question about the Ardeer Company out of curiosity after seeing their name in British Regiments 1914-1918. Now, thanks to the help of all those who volunteered answers and snippets of information I have now embarked on a new research project. This is also the excuse I needed to visit the land of my ancestors, eat proper haggis, visit some distilleries and (if I can find the time) visit the factory!!). Sincere thanks to all those who helped me on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Abbott Posted 28 January , 2003 Share Posted 28 January , 2003 Lee, The Army List for Dec.1914 lists the following:- The Ardeer Company (Territorial) Captain. Weir, J.M. 1 Nov.12 Lieutenant. Taylor, N. 1 Nov.12 2nd Lieutenants. Thomas J. 4 Dec.12 Pollard, A.F.C. 16 Aug.14 Smaldon, H.O. 19 Aug.14 NB. The July 1918 has exactly the same entries. Regards, Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 28 January , 2003 Share Posted 28 January , 2003 Alan - Brilliant! Many thanks for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 7 June , 2003 Share Posted 7 June , 2003 Stumbled across the papers for a soldier of the Ardeer Coy in the PRO today - one thing about researching one Jock unit is that you'll see papers from all the others, all those Macs to sort out. He was a member of the Special Service Section TF and on 20 Jul 14 had signed form E.622 which was an undertaking to serve in 'Defences, Ardeer' when required. I guess this is analogous to the foreign service commitment signed by TF men, since it represents a variation on their normal conditions of service - in this case to undertake service before mobilisation. The authority quoted was Sect 13 (2) ( b ) of the Territorial Forces Reserve Act 1907, which suggests to me the concept of the SSS existed from the beginning of the TF. He was actually embodied on 30 Jul 14 i.e. during the Precautionary Period and discharged on 13 Feb 15 under authority of a WO letter - no further detail given. Jock Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 8 June , 2003 Share Posted 8 June , 2003 Jock - Thanks for that. I don't suppose you have a name for the man, just out of curiosity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 8 June , 2003 Share Posted 8 June , 2003 Lee, 107 Pte John or James Christie is the best I can do Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 8 June , 2003 Share Posted 8 June , 2003 Jock - You are a Gentleman, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 May , 2021 Share Posted 21 May , 2021 Cathkin Ref the 1913 Ardeer Company. This "Company" was raised from employees of the Nobel Explosives Co., Irvine to protect the perimeter of the factory. The rank and file wore a pair of brass shoulder titles which were a double curve, Ardeer top and Company below with RSF in the centre. The company was disbanded when war broke out in 1914 being taken back into the factory and replaced by a so far unknown unit. In 1915 oak glazed frames were produced under the austices of the relevant Territorial Force County Committee. These frames contained the cap badge and shoulder title of each TF unit in the county, the backboard was covered with service dress fabric. I have handled two such frames, a RSF and HLI example, the RSF one contained an Ardeer shoulder title. Both frames had printed A5? sheets fixed to the reverse which gave information on the contents. They also stated that the frame was put together as a record of the 1908-14 Territorial units. I have no idea if each Scottish county produced this type of frame. Hope this is of use, Ken Gibb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poona guard Posted 9 March , 2022 Share Posted 9 March , 2022 Does any one have a photo of the ARDEER COMPANY badge - not a copy from Westlake's book. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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