awakefield Posted 11 March , 2008 Share Posted 11 March , 2008 I am currently editing for publication the diary of a RFA signaller. During 1917 he trained at Bettisfield Camp on the Welsh-Shropshire border. Would anyone hold photographs of the Royal Artillery camp at Bettisfield during WWI as I'd like to include a general shot of the layout? Here's hoping. ALAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 12 March , 2008 Share Posted 12 March , 2008 Hi Alan, I haven't got any photos immediately to hand but this place is local to me. The camp was constructed in the Deer Park of the mansion called Bettisfield Park, Flintshire, a home of the Hanmer family. It lay between Whitchurch (Shropshire) and Ellesmere. The Hanmers sold the mansion in the ?1960s, but still own the estate on which the camp lay. There are War Graves of several RFA men who died whilst in training etc., at nearby Hanmer (St.Chad's) Parish Church. Several of the Army Huts were salvaged after WW1 - one became the Hanmer Village Hall until demolished in the 1950s. Another forms the core of the Village Hall at Tallarn Green, several miles to the north and close to the Cheshire border. A third again is likewise used by the village of Penley a couple of miles westwards: though there are plans afoot to demolish it in the near future in favour of a more modern purpose-built facility. There is a local gentleman now aged 95 who as a boy was used to seeing the artillerymen riding down the nearby country lanes complete with gun limbers etc., and whose memory is so clear he can even remember the names of a couple who made friends with him! I will make enquiries of a couple of people with an interest in local history, who might just have a photo that will suit your need. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 12 March , 2008 Share Posted 12 March , 2008 I am currently editing for publication the diary of a RFA signaller. During 1917 he trained at Bettisfield Camp on the Welsh-Shropshire border. Would anyone hold photographs of the Royal Artillery camp at Bettisfield during WWI as I'd like to include a general shot of the layout? Here's hoping. ALAN Hi Alan Have you visited Bettisfield? If not next time i'm up there i'll take a few photo's of where the camp was situated. In the mean time i'll try and contact some of my friends for you. Bettisfield Church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awakefield Posted 13 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2008 Thanks Chaps I'm hoping to get up to the Bettisfield area in the near future for a long weekend. Want to get a few pics of places mentioned in the diary such as: site of Bettisfield Camp, Hanmer Mere (used by troops for swimming) and Fenn's Moss (site of rifle butts). Interesting info that some of the huts survive as village halls. When I arrange to visit, would be good to have a guide with local knowledge - either of you chaps potentially on for this? Reward would be a couple of pints and acknowledgement in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 13 March , 2008 Share Posted 13 March , 2008 Well, depending when you want to come and my diary I'll see what I can do...pm me on this. I have heard today that there is a plan of the WW1 Camp held locally. Let me explore that possibility. The site was seemingly also used for a WW2 camp, of which at least a ?searchlight emplacement and concrete hut base survive. A pathway is said to run from the "entrance" across the park, but I confess I've never been up there to see it. Hanmer Mere lies below the plateau on which Bettisfield Park lies, within easy walking distance, and the adjoining church & village are very photogenic in my humble opinion. The Fenns Moss site is now a nature reserve run by English Nature or its recent incarnation ?Natural England. The local wardening staff are very knowledgeable about this large area of peat bog, if you can get in touch with them. Because of the unusual biology and botany of this place access to some parts is only by special pass. Just north of the Moss at Fenns Bank there was a WW1 tented musketry camp, which used rifle ranges out on the Mosses. Again, the area was used in WW2 for aerial bombing training, and as a "decoy" site. I am still asking local people for photos. By the way, have you already asked the Flintshire County Records Office (Hawarden) and the newer local authority Wrexham County Borough Museum and Archives for pictures? Also would the IWM London have any? LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awakefield Posted 17 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2008 Thanks for the info - I'll get onto the local archives. I am also contacting the Clwyd-Powys Archaeological Trust who have undertaken landscape surveys of the area and include a section on military use of the area - good website relating to their work. We hold no photographs here at the IWM (I work in the Photo Archive as a curator). Will PM you regarding visit to area. Cheers ALAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fltchrlz Posted 18 February , 2011 Share Posted 18 February , 2011 As a new member, I am plainly very late to this topic, however advice would be appreciated. My grandfather was at Bettisfield camp in WW1 and I have 3 photos from this time. The first is of 'Hut 10', on which he appears, along with the other, named members of the hut. It was taken in November 1918. The second is a photo of one of these soldiers, I assume a friend of my grandfather's, sitting by his bed in what I suppose to be Hut 10. The third shows the company marching to 'the beach' postmarked Bexhill en route to France. In this picture m y grandfather names one of the people who appears on the 'Hut 10' photo. Another friend is named and I know he died 2 months later. A third is named but does not appear on the 'Hut 10' photo, so may have been killed also. If you know of anyone who could use scans of these images, or of any other use they might be, I would be pleased to help. Fltchrlz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 18 February , 2011 Share Posted 18 February , 2011 Hello fitchriz and welcome to the Forum, Alan Wakefield produced his book Plough and Scatter in 2009 which is described in greater detail in the Book Reviews section. It is based on the diaries and journals of a young RFA Signaller who trained at Bettisfield for some 10 months 1916-17 before going out to France. He had a number of photos of the camp and soldiers (some of which were sourced locally), and it would be interesting to see some more. You would need to make a few more posts here before being able to use the PM (Personal Message) system which keeps details like email addresses more secure. In the meantime, did your grandfather serve overseas during WW1 or was he still in training when the war ended? LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fltchrlz Posted 19 February , 2011 Share Posted 19 February , 2011 Nice to hear from you. My grandfather was gassed at Ypres, but the exact chronology is lost to us as he died in 1972. He was billited with a family who had a bay tree farm just outside Ypres, that, apart from the usual horror stories, is all I know. So frustrating not to have asked more questions! Mine is the last generation which remembers the people who fought and there must be thousands like me who have recently become the custodians of family photos. Really, I am just someone who senses the march of time and I worry that the few images we have will become irrelevant as identities are forgotten. Fltchrlz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 19 February , 2011 Share Posted 19 February , 2011 Fitchriz, Have you tried to locate any surviving service records for your relative yet? Two thirds were destroyed in 1940, but if you're lucky they survived and might well include the dates & unit he was in at Bettisfield. His Western Front service should also be covered: if a battery can be identified from the papers there are ways to discover what they got up to. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest picpic32 Posted 2 November , 2014 Share Posted 2 November , 2014 I've had to write this in bold characters as the regular script seems to be struck through. My father was wounded in 1918 and was sent to Bettisfield Camp on 27th September 1918. He was classed B3 for six months, but the war ended and he may have left and convalesced elsewhere. I would love to see any photographs that may still exist. I have one that may be Bettisfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 2 November , 2014 Share Posted 2 November , 2014 Hi, I'd have thought that your father would only have been sent to Bettisfield after convalescence (which usually included a short period of home leave to end it) - it was a training camp. That said, with a B3 classification he may have been sent there to undertake less strenuous duties. Are you able to post a copy of your picture on this site? Many military camp photos look remarkably similar (especially if it's just a group of men outside a hut), but if it's a more general view that could help. Alan Wakefield's book mentioned in post #8 above has a few illustrations. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 7 October , 2015 Share Posted 7 October , 2015 I spend the odd morning in Bolton Library History Centre and on Tuesday a fellow researcher showed me a picture of Artillery Signallers at Bettisfield, one of which is his grandfather. The photo is not dated but is marked "E (Versatile) Division R.3.R. Sigs Bettisfield". There are about 50 Artillerymen with lanterns and telescopes on tripods and, for some reason, a few of them are in fancy dress. I am trying to help this gentleman find which Unit his gf served with and his service number. So far we have identified two good possibles from Service Medal and Award Rolls. Where numbers in the same series are shown as deceased I have found their RFA Units from the Registers of Soldiers Effects. Any info on Signals Training at Bettisfield would be appreciated. Thank you Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 7 October , 2015 Share Posted 7 October , 2015 Brian, The book mentioned above may well be of interest to your friend, as the author of the original diaries was a trainee signaller at Bettisfield for about 10 months in 1917. He describes the training and experience of being there very well. J.Ivor Hanson (ed. Alan Wakefield) Plough and Scatter. The Diary-journal of a First World War Gunner (J.H.Haynes & Co. Ltd. 2009; paperback edition Haynes Publishing Group 2011). Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 8 October , 2015 Share Posted 8 October , 2015 Clive Thank you for that. I will send a pm to Alan but I wanted to do some further research in the Bolton Papers. The soldier is recorded in the Bolton Evening News "Rally to the Flag" column on 21/05/1915 meaning that he enlisted the day before at the Albert Hall, Bolton. He is one of the two possibles we identified. He enlisted into the County Palatine "Comrades" RFA and is therefore L/24478 Dvr Herbert Russell. Thank you Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 10 October , 2015 Share Posted 10 October , 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 10 October , 2015 Share Posted 10 October , 2015 The above picture was probably taken in the winter of 1915/16 or even 1916/17. Can anybody say why a few of the men are in fancy dress. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 10 October , 2015 Share Posted 10 October , 2015 Not so much fancy dress as perhaps a "Pierrot troupe" of entertainers! Skullcaps, two-piece clown outfits with pom-poms on, and big neck ruffs. Can't remember if Ivor Hanson mentions their activities, but clearly either the signallers had their own troupe or these men were part of a larger camp group. I'm guessing the " R 3 R" you mention in the picture title is actually RFA - the Royal Field Artillery. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 10 October , 2015 Share Posted 10 October , 2015 Clive I reduced the size of the picture in order to upload it but I agree It could well be RFA. It would make sense. I will check the original again next week. The Bolton Chronicle in August 1916 reported that the Bolton Artillery Reserve Brigades 2/3 and 3/3 East Lancs Brigades, later 332 Brigade RFA (TF), had formed a Pierrot Troupe so it may have been common. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bibbitybobbity Posted 4 May , 2016 Share Posted 4 May , 2016 Hi, does anyone here have a map or plan of the Royal Field Artillery and Horse Camp at Bettisfield Park please? My uncle is interested in researching this. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 5 May , 2016 Share Posted 5 May , 2016 bibbityb., If you can send me a PM on the system I might be able to help (click on my poppy cross avatar, and it should come up with a menu including "send message". I'm not sure how many posts to this Forum you have to make before it's activated, but not many!) Is this to do with an individual's service there, or about the camp and site as a whole? Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaryman690 Posted 29 December , 2017 Share Posted 29 December , 2017 I have been looking for my grandfather's war records for several years, ( 2nd Lt Richard Riley) it has been a great journey as he started off in the ranks in early 1915, he was very quickly spotted as officer potential and sent for officer training, he was sent to France in 1916 were he fought until getting wounded by a gas shell on or near his position he spent several months recovering in various field hospitals, until fit for duty, he was posted to Bettisfield towards the second half of 1917 were he completed his service,. I am therefore trying to find out as much as possible about the camp and obtaining any images or documents that would give me an idea of his time there. I have read the previous posts with interest and have just this day received a copy of the book you recommended and that it is possible that there is a plan of the camp somewhere, this would be of great interest. any information will be gratefully received many thanks. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 29 December , 2017 Share Posted 29 December , 2017 (edited) Hi Ian, As above, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do about a plan. There was at least one officers' large mess hut, which after the war was bought or otherwise acquired by the Hanmer Estate (on which the camp was built). It was transported down the road to Hanmer village and became the village hall, for dances, theatricals, and later even serving the local primary school children their lunches. A couple of other ordinary accommodation huts likewise ended up as village halls in nearby Penley (best preserved of them) and Tallarn Green. The Hanmer hut was demolished in the 1960s and replaced with council bungalows etc. The lack of a hall is still felt locally. Just in passing, the nearest pub to the camp was the Nag's Head in Bettisfield village, closed for many years and demolished about 2 years ago for housing. Somwehere locally there is a table from the pub, allegedly scarred by the boot hobnails of soldiers dancing on it on Armistice Day 1918! Clive Edited 29 December , 2017 by clive_hughes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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