HMS hawk (e)?

[Guest Desmond6]

I would be grateful if anyone could post some details on HMS Hawk - I've also seen it spelled with an 'e' . It must have been sunk in an action in September/October 1914. Two men from me area on boards - Mair and Power - I am trying to fill in some details.

[widwick]

Protected cruiser built Chatham 1893 7,350 tons

10th Cruiser Sqn (old ships from RNR), Capt H P E T Williams. Part of the Northern patrol. 15 October sailing off N.E. coast with 'Endymion' in line 10 miles apart. Stopped to transfer mail! At 10.30a.m. both underway. Hawke at 12knots attempting to regain station when torpedo struck abreast the foremost funnel. Listed immediately and sank in a few minutes. Only two boats got away. One 3 Offr & 46 men picked up by a Norwegian steamship. Endymion had steamed away to deliver more mail. She sent out no distress signals and it was only when another ship came under attack and all were told to steam N.W. at full speed that her lack of ack caused the flotilla leader Swift, to return. Some hours later she reported picking up a raft with 1 offr & 20 men.

Total loss nearly 500 all ranks. Survivors 4 & 66.

Tony

[Guest Desmond6]

many thanks - I have a 'first person' account of the Coronel/Falklands battle from a RN officer - will dig it out and post if you are interested.

[Michael]

I'd also like to add that she was sunk by Otto Wettigen in U9. He had sunk Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue a few weeks earlier. Out of a population of about 500, he was responsible for 2 deaths in Lower Halstow (Albert Williamson on Hawke and Harry Beanland on Aboukir)

Michael

[Jonathan Saunders]

I'd also like to add that she was sunk by Otto Wettigen in U9. He had sunk Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue a few weeks earlier. Out of a population of about 500, he was responsible for 2 deaths in Lower Halstow (Albert Williamson on Hawke and Harry Beanland on Aboukir)

Michael

Mick

... and responsible for at least 5 more deaths in Rainham (male population over 18 I would estimate in region of 800 in 1914) ... will have to check out Upchurch.

For other PALS, these three villages were separated by about 3 miles of ancient track/roadway skirting the north Kent coastline.

[widwick]

Michael

Interesting that he had that earlier success in similar circumstances - ships stopping to do a mail run. Not a good idea in infested waters!

Tony

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

H.M.S. Hawke

H.M.S. Hawke was an old armoured cruiser operating as part of the 10th Cruiser Squadron assigned to the Northern Patrol. She had originally been launched at Chatham in 1891 and was one of the oldest ships still in service. H.M.S. Hawke was being used as a training ship and had many young cadets on board. She had been recommissioned in February 1913 with a nucleus crew and had come up to her full complement on the outbreak of war in August 1914. During September 1914, she had visited Lerwick.

On the fateful day she was in the northern waters of the North Sea with a similar ship, H.M.S. Theseus when they were attacked. They were operating on October 15th 1914 without a destroyer screen. Unfortunately they were slower than the submarine U9, which was tracking them. Their position was some 60 miles off Aberdeen. At the time, H.M.S. Hawke had just turned to intercept a neutral Norwegian collier.

The U-Boat Commander was Lieutenant Weddigen. He missed the Theseus with his first torpedo but unfortunately hit H.M.S. Hawke amidships near a magazine. The detonation was followed by a second terrific explosion, in which a large number of the crew were killed. The ship sank within 5 minutes and was only able to launch one ship's boat. Five hundred and twenty five perished, including Claude. Only the 49 men in the long boat were saved. They were picked up 3 hours later by a Norwegian steamer. H.M.S. Theseus was under strict Admiralty orders not to attempt to pick up survivors, as only several weeks earlier there had been a disaster. On that occasion, on the 22nd September, both H.M.S. Hogue and H.M.S. Cressy had also been torpedoed when going to pick up survivors from H.M.S. Aboukir. The submarine that had sunk these three ships had again been Lieutenant Otto Weddigen. (U-9)

However, had they had sufficient time to launch other lifeboats from H.M.S. Hawke, then undoubtedly more would have been saved by the Norwegians.

Found at http://www.geocities.com/abbertonroh/sawkins.htm

Ralph

[Desmond7]

Thanks Ralph - did you recive the e-mail earlier - for me - tonight?

[Jonathan Saunders]

U-9 was herself an out of date vessel wwhen she had her successes against ABOUKIR, CRESSY, HOUGUE and HAWKE. Following the sinking of the latter, Weddigen was given command of U-29. He had further success, sinking four merchantmen, circa 12.5k tonnes but U-29 was later sunk herself when she was rammed by HMS DREADNOUGHT off Pentland Firth with the loss of all hands, March 1915. This, interetsingly, was the only success that DREADNOUGHT, the first of her Class, had during the war. If my memory serves me, DREADNOUGHT never fired a gun in anger.

[roger]

A man from my town, bedale North yorkshire also lost his life on the Hawke. This is what I have,

ROBERT STOCKELL

Boy 1st Class

J/25783

H.M.S. "Hawke.” Royal Navy

who died on Thursday 15 October 1914. Age 17. Son of Mrs. Eva Stokell, of 2, Clapham Yard, Northallerton, Yorks. Native of Bedale. PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL Hampshire, United Kingdom.

Torpedoed in the North Sea (The Guardian)

HMS Hawke sunk by German submarine | Lamentable loss of life

Archibald Hurd

Saturday October 17, 1914

The Secretary of the Admiralty made the following announcement through the Press Bureau yesterday at noon:- H.M.S. Theseus (Captain Hugh Edwards, R.N.) was attacked by submarine in the northern waters of the North Sea yesterday afternoon, but was missed.

H.M.S. Hawke (Captain Hugh P. E. Williams, R.N.) was attacked at about the same time, and was sunk.

The following officers, together with 49 men of the crew, have been landed at Aberdeen from a trawler:-

Mr. Sidney Austin, boatswain.

Mr. James Dennis, gunner.

Mr. Harry C. T. Evitt, acting gunner

The remaining officers and men are missing. Further particulars will be published as soon as they are available. H.M.S. Hawke was a cruiser built in 1889.

At 8.25 last night the Secretary of the Admiralty issued through the Press Bureau the following further announcement:- Lieutenant Command (G.) Robert R. Rosoman and 20 men have been saved from a raft. [A list of the petty officers and men of the Hawke who are saved appears on the next page.] The Hawke and Theseus were sister ships, protected cruisers, and together with the Edgar, Endymion, Crescent, Gibraltar, Grafton, and Royal Arthur they formed the Tenth Cruiser Squadron attached to the Third Fleet.

These are the oldest ships on the effective list, and their chief use recently has been for instructional duties. They are of similar size, equipment, and speed. The Hawke displaced 7,350 tons, steamed 20 knots when new, and carried two 9.2in. and ten 6in. guns for principal armament. Launched in 1891 at Chatham, she was completed two years later at a cost of £400,702.

She was commissioned the same year and spent some time in the Mediterranean. She was last recommissioned in February last year with a nucleus crew, and most of her present officers joined her in August last. Her full complement was 544 officers and men, but there is no official information as to the number actually on board on Thursday.

The Hawke, it will be remembered, collided with the White Star liner Olympic in the Solent on September 20, 1911, when undergoing steam trials after refitting. both vessels were damaged, the cruiser requiring a new stern. The incident led to litigation which is not ended yet, an appeal against the decision of the Admiralty Court in reference to liability for the damage being yesterday set down for hearing in the House of Lords on Tuesday next.

Sank in five minutes

The Aberdeen correspondent of the "Evening Standard" reported yesterday that the steam trawler Ben Rinnes landed at Aberdeen yesterday morning 58 survivors of the crew of the Hawke. The cruiser (he added) was torpedoed on Thursday, and sank in about five minutes. Captain John Cormack (presumably of the trawler) stated that he took the survivors off a Norwegian steamer on Thursday night.

The survivors had escaped in an over-crowded beat, but nothing could be done to save those floating in the water with cork jackets or on rafts. The periscope of the submarine disappeared directly after the explosion. A Peterhead report in the London "Evening News" states that a Swedish vessel made an attempt to assist in saving the cruiser's crew, but had to "clear out."

The deadly torpedo

"Manchester Guardian" and "Daily Telegraph" war service.

We have to deplore another success by a German submarine. The official particulars at present available are very scanty. It appears that the cruisers Theseus and Hawke, sister vessels, were on patrol duty "in the northern waters of the North Sea" when they were attacked by under-water vessels.

The torpedo - or torpedoes - aimed at the former ship did not hit her. About the same time the Hawke became the target of the enemy, and she was struck - sinking, it is stated, in four or five minutes. We could spare the ship, for she was old, but we could not spare the officers and men of the ship, for they were in the very prime of life.

The loss of life - apparently between 450 and 500 have been drowned - is a cause of sorrow which we cannot conceal. Once more, as when the Aboukir, Hogue, and Cressy went down, the questions will be asked, "Should these cadets, even though rated as midshipmen, be afloat? Is their presence necessary?" Would it not be better if they completed their training, so that when the war is over we may have young officers to take up the duties which others have had to relinquish - to fill, in fact, the gaps in the fleet at sea?"

It is a matter on which there is room for difference of opinion. It is, however, the custom of the navy for budding officers to be on board ship in war time. This is one of those matters which are "service." The navy has its own customs and standards. There are nearly 1,000

Midshipmen and cadets in his Majesty's ships.

The Hawke's rapid sinking

The Hawke and her sister ship were well-designed cruisers, as good ships as any for which the late Sir William White was responsible, with a speed originally of about 20 knots, which had since fallen off. They were given protective decks varying in thickness from three to five inches, and they were well subdivided. The hulls of the Hawke consisted of no fewer than 192 compartments, and there were 98 watertight doors. Apparently she was struck near a magazine.

If this were the case it helps to explain the rapidity with which she sank, for to the damage done by the enemy's torpedo would be added the injury due to the simultaneous explosion of the ship's own charges. If this were not a fact it would be difficult to understand how a vessel so well designed and built, though old, could, with her watertight doors closed, go to the bottom so quickly. It has already been suggested that the German torpedoes are far more deadly than any in other navies owing to the use of an explosive known as "T.N.T."

It must now be concluded either that the Germans have been exceedingly fortunate in hitting the most vulnerable parts of the ships we have lost, or that they possess in their explosive an agent far more deadly than was known. Certainly the experience of war has not confirmed the comfortable conclusions of peace.

It was assumed that under the attack of a single torpedo no ship such as the Hawke, except she was struck near a magazine, could be sunk. She would, it was conjectured, get a list to port or starboard or go down somewhat ahead or astern. Happily, in designing our latest ships, far more complete precautions were taken against the peril of the torpedo. The main bulkheads are solid, without a single door which may or may not be closed in case of a sudden emergency and which may or may not resist the pressure of an immense volume of water.

[Dolphin]

HMS Hawke has a small place in history outside her demise in the War. In (I think November) 1911 the suction from a passing liner, RMS Olympic, dragged HMS Hawke away from its moorings in Southampton with the result that the cruiser collided with the liner. RMS Olympic was, of course, the sister ship of the better known RMS Titanic. At the time of the collision Olympic was under the command of Captain E J Smith, who went on to command the Titanic on its maiden voyage.

Among those lost on HMS Hawke when it was sunk was the England Rugby International James Henry Digby 'Bungy' Watson (3 caps as a Centre in 1914) who was serving as a Surgeon.

[Desmond7]

Thanks for all your help. As a matter of interest, I am now fairly certain that Power was first man from my town to be KIA in Great War. I have subsequently been told that a an called Power was also thefirst to be killed in ww2. Going to check.

I have posted on Power's 'last letter home' under the title 'outspoken statement' - it may be of interest.

[Michael]

RMS Olympic was, of course, the sister ship of the better known RMS Titanic.

This incident gave fuel to the conspiracy theory that the two ships' identities were swopped after the incident due to some insurance scam.

The conspiracy theory (which I must state that I don't subscribe to) states that it was actually the partially completed Olympic that sank in April 1912, perhaps deliberately.

Michael

[Desmond7]

Thanks Michael P.S. where and what are the colours

[Michael]

They are the Buffs' colours at Canterbury Cathedral.

Michael

[Myrtle]

Having been away from the forum for a while I was interested to see all the info about the Hawke. I have researched Captain H.P.E.T. Williams (Hugh Powell Evan Tudor) Williams as he is one of the men listed on the Rhayader War Memorial in Mid Wales.

As mentioned previously, the Hawke was in collision with the Olympic (1911) while the latter was being captained by E.J.Smith. The damage to the Olympic was repaired by men who were working on the Titanic. Ironically this is said to have delayed the completion and launching of the Titanic which then contributed to it having to travel through the dangerous iceburg conditions within which it perished.

Myrtle

[Yorts]

HMS Hawke has a small place in history outside her demise in the War. In (I think November) 1911 the suction from a passing liner, RMS Olympic, dragged HMS Hawke away from its moorings in Southampton with the result that the cruiser collided with the liner. RMS Olympic was, of course, the sister ship of the better known RMS Titanic. At the time of the collision Olympic was under the command of Captain E J Smith, who went on to command the Titanic on its maiden voyage.

Hi,

HMS Hawke was sucked onto Olympic, however, they were passing each other in the spithead (i.e. Hawke was not at her moorings). The exact date was 20th September 1911, and although the Olympic was technically under the command of Captain Smith, the orders being given at the helm were issued by the Southampton pilot.

This was Olympic's fifth voyage and she was rounding Bramble Bank in the Spithead Channel at a speed of 19 knots when she encountered HMS Hawke. The ships were on parallel courses, however, as the hawke approached Olympic she was forced to attempt to pass under Olympic's stern or run into the bank. When the two vessels were approximately 250 yards apart the Hawkes was sucked in by the passing Olympic. She struck 85 foot from Olypmic's stern on the starboard side. Hawke was very badly damaged, and two triangular gashes were left in the side of the Olympic, one above the water line and one below - the majority of damage being caused by Hawke's ram. The starboard propeller was badly damaged and required replacing. There was no loss of life on either ship, and both made it back to port under their own power. In many following court cases and appeals, the Olympic was held totally responsible for the accident, somewhat unfairly as the excessive speed and handling of the vessel was down to the Southampton pilot and not Captain Smith nor White Star Line.

Some good photographs of the damage to both ships can be found at:

http://www.greatships.net/olympic_hw.html

Regards,

Alex.

[Dolphin]

Alex

Thanks for the clarification.

Dolphin