Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Medal ribbon


Neil B
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi new to the board ,

but have seen some ref to the Terrirtorial Imperial badge worn on SD etc. I am trying to establish my uncles entitlement to his medals. I have the War & Victory medal but not a star....I am positive he had a star. as a boy I read on the obverse his name and No. etc. however the medal cards show no star given.

There is a photograph of him in SD and above the left hand breast pocket it looks like a ribbon? The other pics I have viewed with other soldiers show this Terrier badge on the right side?

He was killed in May 1918...FIF DOW @ 20 yrs & 6 months and was in the 1/8 Argylls...his territiorial No. was replaced by a regular No. can any one shed some light on this is it possible they wore a ribbon before the end of the war?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Neil

Welcome to the forum, is there any chance you can tell us his name, service number etc.? Perhaps even post the picture so that we can be more help?

Regards

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Steve,

can you send me an eMail direct & I'll send the pic and info I don't know how to post pics in fact it took me a long while to get on here:-))) I assume you can, or if not someone else. Cheers Neil.

oakleaves@gmx.net

------------------------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Neil's behalf here's a cropped picture of Pte. Duncan McIsaac showing the relevant 'ribbon'. Any ideas as to what it is?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Details of his Medal Index Card

Medal card of McIsaac, Duncan

Corps Regiment No Rank

Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 3492 Private

Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 301303 Private

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/13

Quoting Neil he states that "The roll papers show Victory & British but no entry against the Star the British being notated do and the Victory on top G/105 B25 Page 1947"

I can't see another MIC for a possible 'Star' so any ideas?

Steve

edit: Am I right in thinking the 1914-15 Star was instituted in late 1918? If so then it can't be a 'Star' ribbon as he died in May of that year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Neil B @ Feb 28 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He was killed in May 1918...FIF DOW @ 20 yrs & 6 months and was in the 1/8 Argylls...his territiorial No. was replaced by a regular No. can any one shed some light on this is it possible they wore a ribbon before the end of the war?

Neil

Both his Service Numbers are as a Territorial, not a Regular. He would have started out with the number 3492 and in early 1917, when the Territorial Force was renumbered, he was allocated the 301303 number. This number is from the number block allocated to the 8th Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (300001 to 325000) so that's consistant with what you know at least.

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Neil

Done a bit more digging through the online Ancestry Medal Index Cards and have found these either side of your man. As you can see none records a 'Star' so I would assume it is safe to say that Duncan wasn't entitled to one either (as his MIC already suggests).

3455 – 301286 Douglas McCorquodale BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1947

3464 – 301289 Charles Dow BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1947

3480 – 301296 Alex McCulloch BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1947

3484 – 301299 John McGeachy BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1947

3487 – 301300 Malcolm MacDougall BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1947

3490 – 301302 Archibald Gilles BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1947

3492 – 301303 Duncan McIsaac BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1947

3495 – 301305 Andrew T McCallum BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1948

3503 – 301308 Alexander Kerr BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1948

3505 – 301310 Angus McColl BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1948

3506 – 301311 Dugald McColl BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1948

Furthermore there is this soldier.....

3585 – 301366 Dugald Mason BWM & Victory G/105 B25 Page 1951

His partial 'pension' record has survived on Ancestry and suggests he enlisted 7th January 1916 into 3/8th Argylls at Dunoon. He's 93 numbers away from Duncan so I would suggest Duncan enlisted end of 1915, maybe even beginning of January 1916 at the earliest.

Regards

Steve

edit: Changed his name, should have been Duncan, not Donald.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Steve,

As I wrote direct this list I believe is from the sheets that show only the two medals the other sheet K1380 shows the x3.

Not so sure on the 3rd /8th ASH you mention it seems to have stopped using 3rd Bn's about the 6th/3rd Viz: 7th onwards having only 2 Bn's up to the 1/10th reverting back to one only. the for EG 2/6 or 3/6 & those others before any deaths were at home so I am assuming these were either tgn or reserve Bn's being at home? (There was no deaths in the 3/8th shown) All this has been gleaned from the roll of dead soldiers. Note 15th & 16th Bn's all died at home also.

The 1/8 had losses in 1915 and I sent you a pic showing them leaving Bedford in 1915 for the front. Having a vivid recollection of the name on the star as my Broither is also named Duncan and in the 1950's fakes were not the norm..... must keep going on this. I tried the Regt museum but fell foul of some young girl who was on the way out on a date no doubt and reported me to the curator for being persistant!

----------------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Possibly he was a pre-war Terrier & had earned a TFEM prior to 1914;before re~enlisting???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not likely as he died at 20 & 1/2 however war service time is doubled for the TA medal or it was in WW2. There was no TEM with his medals that I have, it is this star that needs to be proved. Has anyone got connections with the ASH museum to find out when he enlisted? As I wrote all the Imperial badges I have seen are on the right & this in the pic is where a ribbon would be?

Possibly he was a pre-war Terrier & had earned a TFEM prior to 1914;before re~enlisting???
Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Neil B @ Feb 29 2008, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not so sure on the 3rd /8th ASH you mention

Neil

3/8th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders were formed at Dunoon in April 1915, later becoming the 8th Reserve Battalion in April 1916.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Mar 2 2008, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As I wrote all the Imperial badges I have seen are on the right & this in the pic is where a ribbon would be?

We know it's not a 1914-15 Star ribbon as he died before they were instituted, the TEM would appear to be the best bet.

I'm of the opinion that his medal entitlement was the BWM & Victory medal and that he didn't earn a Star. His number, admittedly based on a single one that is 93 numbers away from his, appears to be a late 1915 one so I can't see anything at the moment which suggests otherwise.

Happy hunting..

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I repeat, not possible to have got the TEM due to age... if he had joined as a drummer boy no doubt he would have still been with them instead of one of the rifle Coy's. The other Uncle you turned up has the star and his card was completed well being in the drums.

Having looked through all such posts that may have led me on..... I can see only suggestions that the dates on the issue of a ribbon, nothing concrete? Is there a possibility in checking those next to him on this other K1380 sheet to see if anyone has the star being so close to him? I believe the form you checked for that number of men against, is for the two medals only. Thanks for keeping this alive, surely there must be some listing as to WHEN they enlisted as already proved where he did?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Neil B @ Mar 3 2008, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can see only suggestions that the dates on the issue of a ribbon, nothing concrete?

From The Times, dated December 24th 1918

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and from The Times, January 13th 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Neil B @ Mar 3 2008, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is there a possibility in checking those next to him on this other K1380 sheet to see if anyone has the star being so close to him? I believe the form you checked for that number of men against, is for the two medals only.

Neil

I didn't check against any forms, I simply went through every number around his where the Medal Index Card was available to view online on the Ancestry website, the results are in post #7.

By all means email me the list and I'll have a look to see what I can find.

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest KevinEndon

He was attached to the 10th entrenching Btn 30th April 1916 then with C Coy 8th Btn from the 13th May 1916 There is no other info I can find on Duncan. There is no record at the museum of his enlisting date, sorry

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kevin, I have a copy of PII orders stating he was taken on strength @ the dates given....the way I read it along with the others on there (draft) lots of early Numbers as wel,l they were put into the 10th to work for a while and returned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just in case it was missed? There is a pic of the what looks to be a medal ribbon in the pic kindly posted by Steve.E on the 28th Feb to this thread. Still trying to eatablish if he qualified & if not what is this worn in the pic? Does anyone know how to get the info on date OF enlistment?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...