charlesmessenger Posted 24 February , 2008 Share Posted 24 February , 2008 I am trying to confirm whether Lt Col Valentine Vivian Grenadier Guards was on the staff of Fourth Army in August 1918 and in what capacity. I know that he was Assistant Military Attache in Paris and aftewards headed the counter-espionage section in MI6. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 24 February , 2008 Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Colonel Vivian's Obituary from the Times of 11-2-1948 Not an awful lot of detail... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 24 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Steve That's great! At least I know that he was definitely on Rawlinson's staff. Some accounts state that his WW1 service was in India and the Middle East. Many thanks Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 24 February , 2008 Share Posted 24 February , 2008 His entry in O'Moore Creagh and Humphris' DSO book mentions he was Assistant Military Attache in Paris from 1920 (according to Who's Who, 1924, until 1920). Montgomery Massingberd's book on 4th Army (of which I have all the pages ) doesn't mention him, as far as I can see. The History of the Grenadier Guards only netions his awards in the Appendices: no text mentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 24 February , 2008 Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Major-General Sir Archibald Montgomery's book "The Story of the Fourth Army in the Battles of The Hundred Days, August 8th to November 11th 1918" mentions in the Preface "The following officers of the Operations and Intelligence branches of the General Staff of the Fourth Army have taken a very large share in the compilation of this story and in the production of the battle maps which accompany it:- Lt.-Col. R.M. Luckock, Royal Lancaster Regiment, Lt.-Col. V. Vivian, Grenadier Guards, Captain R.C. Berkeley, Rifle Brigade, Captain C.Q. Taplin, Australian Imperial Forces, Captain D.W. Furlong, Royal Berkshire Regiment, and to them my sincere thanks are due." Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 24 February , 2008 Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Charles, There is also a group picture with him titled 'The Fourth Army Commander and the Army Headquaters Staff' facing page 272 of the same book. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 24 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Andy and Steven Many thanks. I think you have given sufficient information to confirm that he was Rawlinson's chief intelligence officer, as was claimed in an interview with him by the Sunday Express in November 1931. |It is all to do with Lt Rollings of 17th Bn Tank Corps finding details of the Hindeburg Line in an HQ in Framerville on 8 August 1918. The paper championed him as the man who won the war and, as a result, he was given a cheque for £5,000 by Lady Houston, whose money ensure that Britain won the Schneider Trophy for the third successive time in that same year. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 24 February , 2008 Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Picture of Vivian in the group picture mentioned before, let me know if you would like the full sized version as it comes out better without having to re-size. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 24 February , 2008 Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Tcha! Well done, Andy. I looked in the Appendices and Index. Never thought of the Preface! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 24 February , 2008 Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Hi Steven, Only looked in the Preface as I could not find him in the Appendices and Index either. The name was familiar as I have only just finally got around to reading the book again. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 24 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2008 Andy THanks, but picture is not necessary. I only wanted to verify the newspaper report, which had a number of inaccuracies in it. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cyrus Posted 1 March , 2012 Share Posted 1 March , 2012 There are two Valentine Vivians; one was a serving officer in the British Army and a career diplomat; the other was in MI6 - for the latter see my entry on Wikipedia under Valentine Vivian Tony Vivian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steen Ammentorp Posted 1 March , 2012 Share Posted 1 March , 2012 Hi, Lt-Col Valentine Vivian's entry in the Quarterly Army List, end 31st December 1919 gives his assignments during the war as: 5th Aug. 1914 - 18th Nov. 1914: GSO3, HQ, Central Force, Home Defence 19th Nov. 1914 - 4th Apr. 1915: Brig.Maj., 4th Cav. Brig., BEF 4th Jun. 1915 - 2nd Jan. 1916: GSO3, 1st Div., BEF 5th Feb. 1916 - 12th Jun. 1916: GSO2, 4th Army, BEF 13th Jun. 1916 - 4th Sep. 1916: GSO2, GHQ, BEF 5th Sep. 1916 - 8th Apr. 1919: GSO1, 4th Army, BEF 4th Aug. 1919 - ? : GSO2, HQ, Northern Russian Force The army list is available here: http://www.archive.org/stream/armylistjanpart11920grea#page/538/mode/2up All Quarterly Army List from WWI & WWII, plus a nearly all the Hart's Army Lists prior to 1900 is available at the Internet Archive here: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3A%22nlsarmylists%22 You will also find the Navy Lists http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3A%22nlsnavylists%22 They are free to download Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canach Posted 14 June , 2012 Share Posted 14 June , 2012 It would seem Lt.-Col. Vivian was also attached to Second Army Intelligence at one time. Here is a 5 page Intelligence Summary signed by him after the Passchendaele operation. http://www.cefresearch.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9868&highlight= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spv Posted 25 July , 2023 Share Posted 25 July , 2023 There is some confusion here. I am the grandson of the Valentine Vivian who was head of Section V of MI6 (SIS). He died in 1969. I went to his funeral. The man whose picture is shown in these exchanges is NOT my grandfather. I don't know whether Grandfather was in France in 1918, but I doubt it. He was in Istanbul. I do have his typewritten memoirs which I could consult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 25 July , 2023 Share Posted 25 July , 2023 (edited) I was intrigued by the above post. When you try to research them, they get horribly intermingled, one with the other. Both being Valentine Vivian, Lt-Col, CMG For anyone interested , the two men mentioned above are Valentine Vivian b1880, d 1948 man with Times obit of 11 Feb 1948 in OP AND the other man Valentine Patrick Tyrel Vivian with an Ancestry Tree here, click . MI6 Officer 1886–1969 Birth 17 MAR 1886 • Kensington, London, England, Death 15 APR 1969 • New Forest, Hampshire, England His obit in the Times Edited 25 July , 2023 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spv Posted 25 July , 2023 Share Posted 25 July , 2023 There is some confusion here. I am the grandson of the Valentine Vivian who was head of Section V of MI6 (SIS). He died in 1969. I went to his funeral. The man whose picture is shown in these exchanges is NOT my grandfather. I don't know whether Grandfather was in France in 1918, but I doubt it. He was in Istanbul. I do have his typewritten memoirs which I could consult. Terrel, not Tyrell. I have a portrait of him, painted by his father, hanging in the room where I am sitting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 25 July , 2023 Share Posted 25 July , 2023 3 minutes ago, spv said: There is some confusion here. I am not sure what you are querying here. Is there something in the two Times obits that you think is wrong - are they somehow confusing the two men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spv Posted 25 July , 2023 Share Posted 25 July , 2023 I am correcting your spelling of Terrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 25 July , 2023 Share Posted 25 July , 2023 2 minutes ago, spv said: I am correcting your spelling of Terrel. That is very kind of you. On the confusion between the two men, I hope you will agree that the two Times obits make it clear who the two men were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 July , 2023 Share Posted 25 July , 2023 3 hours ago, corisande said: That is very kind of you. On the confusion between the two men, I hope you will agree that the two Times obits make it clear who the two men were Thank you corisande, you make it eminently clear that they are two entirely different officers who just happened to share the same name. Something that we all know was common with a great many names during wartime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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