spidge Posted 7 February , 2008 Share Posted 7 February , 2008 Some help required here on how "posting at death" of AFC personnel should be denoted. I have commenced cataloguing the AFC deaths of WW1 to add to my collection of 11,000 RAAF deaths of ww2. The question is: Prior to January 1918 the squadrons were designated RFC. If the person died in 1916 which designation should be used? eg: 68 Squadron RFC or No 2 Squadron AFC or 2sq AFC Am I being pedantic here? Thomas Charles Richmond Baker DFC MM & Bar RankCaptain [Capt]Unit4th Sqdn Australian Flying CorpsServiceArmyConflict1914-1918Date of Death4 November 1918Cause of DeathKilled in actionCemetery or Memorial DetailsBelgium 367 Escanaffles Communal Cemetery HainaultPlace Of EnlistmentAdelaide, SAWar Grave Register NotesBAKER, Capt. Thomas Charles Richmond, D.F.C., M.M. and Bar. 4th Sqdn. Australian Flying Corps. Killed in action 4th Nov., 1918. Age 21. Son of Annie Martha Baker, of 55, Park Terrace, North Unley, South Australia, and the late Richmond Baker. John Bell RankCaptain [Capt]Unit68th Sqdn Australian Flying CorpsServiceArmyConflict1914-1918Date of Death27 December 1917Cause of DeathDied of woundsCemetery or Memorial DetailsFRANCE 446 Tincourt New British CemeteryPlace Of EnlistmentRokewood, VICWar Grave Register NotesBELL, Capt. John, 68th Sqdn. Australian Flying Corps. Died of wounds 27th Dec., 1917. Age 31. Son of John and Annie Carstairs Bell, of Geelong, Victoria, Australia. IV. C. 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 7 February , 2008 Share Posted 7 February , 2008 Spidge This is a bit complex. In essence, those who joined the AFC in Australia were assigned to AFC units, but those AFC squadrons were re-numbered in the RFC system when they became part of the main war effort. Then they were re-numbered as AFC units/regained their old AFC number in 1918. In particular: the First Half-Flight in Mesopotamia was absorbed into No 30 Sqn RFC until 12 September 1916 when, together with No 1 Sqn AFC (which left Australia on 16 March 1916), what was left of it was absorbed into No 67 (Australian) Squadron RFC in Egypt, and it kept its RFC number until until 6 February 1918, when it was redesignated as an AFC squadron; No 2 Sqn AFC was re-numbered as No 69 (Australian) Sqn RFC on 30 January 1917 and then became No 3 Sqn AFC on 19 January 1918; No 68 (Australian) Sqn RFC was formed in the UK on 30 January 1917 and became No 2 Sqn AFC on 19 January 1918; and No 71 (Australian) Sqn RFC was formed in the UK on 27 March 1917 and became No 4 Sqn AFC on 19 January 1918. I hope that this helps you. I'm also working on a list of AFC casualties, so if you'd like to compare notes, please PM me. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidge Posted 7 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2008 Thanks Gareth, I will just put the squadron that they were in at the time of death. Too confusing otherwise! At a quick grab from the CWGC site, I drew 212 for the years 1914-1919 however there are a few more included for their cut off date of 1921 (4 or 5) extra. I am collecting the photos of RAAF headstones and memorials for the RAAF around the world, so thought I should include the AFC. With respect to the Australians in WW2 that joined the RAF/RCAF/RNZAF/SAAF, I used Geoffs search engine and achieved another 193 that were not listed as "Australian". He has a WW1 search engine which may provide the same details of Australians that joined the RFC. What number do you have in your research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 7 February , 2008 Share Posted 7 February , 2008 Spidge I haven't added them up, but I found about 4 or 5 that aren't in the CWGC list but are included in Airmen Died, and about the same number vice versa. It gets confusing with AFC men who were serving in RFC units when they died, also Airmen Died stops its coverage at the Armistice. I haven't gone into the Australians who were serving in the RFC, RNAS or RAF. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 8 February , 2008 Share Posted 8 February , 2008 Mate, I have a DB on all the soldiers in the LH or LH suport units (including 1 Sqn AFC) that embarked. Amoung these men are many that tranfered to other arms including the AFC and RFC and I have there places of deaths recorded. If you need to check them or what them let me know. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 8 February , 2008 Share Posted 8 February , 2008 I accidently found this headstone hidden under the aptinea at Karrakatta Cemetery in W. Aust. It struck me as interesting given the age on the plaque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidge Posted 8 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2008 I accidently found this headstone hidden under the aptinea at Karrakatta Cemetery in W. Aust. It struck me as interesting given the age on the plaque. Yes very interesting. Seems like he told a fib! This is his embarkation. This is his war record. He would have only been 17. http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 8 February , 2008 Share Posted 8 February , 2008 Yes he did ... I had a look. It would mean he was a very young LT as well as in the AFC if he was indeed flying. There is another one at Karrakatta that is part of the Historic Walk ... next time I am there I will take a photograph. It is a very different type of headstone as well and faces in a different direction to the rest. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidge Posted 9 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2008 I will be in WA for work in March. I need the WW2 RAAF photos from Fremantle cemetery, so if time permits I will have a look. cheers Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 9 February , 2008 Share Posted 9 February , 2008 It would mean he was a very young LT as well as in the AFC if he was indeed flying. Sandra From his records at the NAA it looks like he did graduate from flying training, hence his promotion to Lieutenant, but didn't fly operationally due to a Not Yet Diagnosed (NYD) nervous problem. He went to the the Craig Lockhardt hospital in Scotland (the place where Lt Siegfried Sassoon of the RWF spent some time after his breakdown) before being returned to Australia. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 9 February , 2008 Share Posted 9 February , 2008 Geoff ... I have actually photographed all of the defence personnel in Fremantle Cemetery save the last 2 years. Is a project I have been working on for a few years. Still requires finalisation of the second walk through the cemetery. Gareth ... I remember now ... I did check his service record because of his age. given that he was so young one can fully understand his illness. Apart from that ... he is an example of the adventurous nature of many of the WW1 lads. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidge Posted 9 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2008 Sandra.........I only have (5) at Fremantle - Geraldton (41) will be the task! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 9 February , 2008 Share Posted 9 February , 2008 Matt might already have the Geraldton ones done http://www.australianwargraves.org/countri...gions%20ww1.php I have completed the CWGC in Fremantle as a seperate project from the entire cemetery project. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidge Posted 9 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2008 "Matt might already have the Geraldton ones done I have completed the CWGC in Fremantle as a seperate project from the entire cemetery project. Bright Blessings Sandra" Thank you very much Sandra. I did speak to Matt and advised my AFC/RAAF project however he replied that he could not pass images on to me as volunteers who provided/entrusted the images initially would not want them passed on to a third party. Cheers Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now