Is this flying gear?

[ARABIS]

Hi,

Attached are two photos of the same man, the first in leather jacket & helmet, & the second in R.N. class III uniform for ratings not dressed as seamen. The class III uniform was worn by the R.N.A.S., but if he was R.N.A.S., I would expect to see the hint of an eagle badge on his right arm, or did some not wear badges?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

ARABIS.

[ARABIS]

2nd photo.

[Doc2]

Well, the first photo is definitely flying gear. The soft leather helmet with the leather rolls in front of the ears (supposedly to reduce noise) was a common type, used by both the RNAS and the RFC. And the jacket too is pretty typical. However, it is impossible to tell if it was issued or commercially purchased, and I don't think you can definitively say whether it was RFC or RNAS. Doc2

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The RNAS was a branch of the Navy, men could serve with it and stay with their or1iginal unit. The 1914 Star roll shows many men retaining their RN and RM official numbers, for all ranks up and including to Master At Arms.

Do you have a name or number to search the registers of sea service?

Edited 3 February , 2008 by per ardua per mare per terram

[ARABIS]

Doc2,

Thanks for confirming it as flying gear, as I wasn't sure if it was that, or the sort of kit motorcyclists etc would wear.

per ardua,

Thanks for the R.N.A.S. information, unfortunately there is nothing on either postcard to identify the rating, other than a Cambridge photographer's address.

[gothic69]

Hi Arabis,

The flying gear is of RNAS type- a Black double breasted flying Jacket (RFC was brown usually with a large slanted map pocket on the left breast). As for the badges, he should have an RNAS eagle in gold on his right upper arm together with some type of qualification badge but as some photos show this is not always the case.

Ian

[ARABIS]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the extra info on the flying jacket.

Regards,

ARABIS.

[centurion]

I think I'd go with the general concensus on flying rear except that the jacket could quite easily have been used by a motor cyclist of the time and the gear was interchangeable. (after all both activities required wind proof clothing). Flying helmets were also sometimes acquired by motorcylists. The RNAS used to issue a flying coat that was longer than that shown in your photos and had a bigger collar - find the famous one of Warnford standing by his aircraft.

If asked at gun point to choose I'd go for flying gear but otherwise would not be too dogmatic about it.

[ARABIS]

Centurion,

Thanks for your opinion. I suppose it also depends if it is kit actually used by the man in the photo, or whether it is from the photographers prop-box. For example, I have other postcards taken in a studio of ratings buttoned up to the neck in oilskins & smoking pipes, conveying an image of hardy seamen.

ARABIS.

[centurion]

from the photographers prop-box.

Photographers prop boxes have been the cause of many a misinterpretation the most notorious being the occasion that one of Locker Lampson's Petty Officers due to go out to Russia with the armoured car squadron was photographed in a special Russian Uniform for PR purposes. Russia and Snow being synonimous in the snapper's mind artificial (sticky) snow was applied to the boots. The PO returned to his lodgings (on the tube) wearing his Russian uniform and with snow on his boots. As fate would have it a large consignment of eggs had just been delivered to a Scottish port from Scandinavia. Given the food shortages this was news and so a newspaper stringer in Scotland telegraphed London. Now this type of egg was known as a Russian and so a telegram arrived to the effect that ' a quarter of a million Russians from the Baltic have been landed in Scotland and are now on trains for London' And so a famous urban myth was born after all it was in the papers and some eye witnesses had really seen a Russian with snow on his boots!

[Dolphin]

And so a famous urban myth was born after all it was in the papers and some eye witnesses had really seen a Russian with snow on his boots!

This is getting away from the subject of the thread, but I have some doubts about the RNAS Armoured Car man and the photographer's props as an explanation for the famous 'snow on their boots' myth, as the story was apparently common in August 1914, while the BEF was moving to France, but Cdr Locker-Lampson's men didn't arrive in Alexandrovsk (later Murmansk) until January 1916, after service on the Western Front.

Another theory I have seen is that people at railway stations in England asked some Scottish Territorials on their way to ports in the south of the country where they were from, and had the answer "Ross-shire" in thick accents, which they interpreted as being Russia. The snow was an addition to the original story to give it credibility. If so, you'd think that the British uniforms worn by the men should perhaps have suggested that they came from somewhere nearer.

Gareth

[gothic69]

This is definitely a RNAS pattern Flying Jacket, the same exact jacket is shown worn by a couple of RNAS pilots in field photographs. The photos are published in 'Uniforms and Equipment of the British Army in World War 1' by Stephen Chambers, can't attache them copyright and all that. I can understand the question though because I wear a very similar leather reefer coat now and there is not much difference in style, and as the RNAS generally didn't supply flying clothing (unlike the RFC) aircrew who were mainly officers bought their own kit from commercial outfitters who probably supplied the pre war motor trade.

[centurion]

This is definitely a RNAS pattern Flying Jacket, the same exact jacket is shown worn by a couple of RNAS pilots in field photographs.

RNAS generally didn't supply flying clothing (unlike the RFC) aircrew who were mainly officers bought their own kit from commercial outfitters who probably supplied the pre war motor trade.

So how do you know for sure that the jackets in the photos to which you refer are not supplied by a commercial outfitter?

[gothic69]

Hi centurion,

I must have garbled my post, but generally all RNAS flying clothing was bought from commercial outfitters or the base tailor and paid for by an allowance to the aircrew( not sure about the Sidcot suits as these were RFC issue as well). As you know the RN historically didnt issue uniform but sailors bought their own clothes though the allowance scheme from slops or the base tailor and the RNAS followed suit.

To recap this jacket follows RNAS pattern but was purchased from a commercial outfitter!

Ian