Jnr Posted 20 January , 2008 Share Posted 20 January , 2008 Hi all am new to forum, reason am here is am trying to find out about my great grand father Michael McArdle, question is were to start. Will I know he was a officer’s batman in the trenches on the western front no idea what regiment, could be any thing from a Irish Scottish or London regiment, reason being he was from Ireland married a Scot’s lass and worked in a big London hotel as a hairdresser. Also a hairdresser to the Prince royal. He was separated from his wife 5 years into the marriage around 1907 so I don’t think his wife would be receiving any army money. What I have been told is that when his battalion was going over the top, the officer held back, with this my great grandfather did the same, the officer order my great grandfather to go over the top and he would not till the officer did the same, the officer with drew his pistil as he was doing this my great grandfather struck him, I think he was given the chose of a court marshal or joining the RFC as a air gunner ,as them days the life span in the RFC was around 2 weeks, he did join the RFC and was a front gunner in a Handley Page bombers and he did survive the war. Till a grand old age died 1966,. What I need is links to start a search , I thought the RFC would be the first place to start as they had fewer members then the army in the trenches. My father said like other that came back from the great war he never spoke of it. I do remember my great grandfather as a child in the sixties. Any help would be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 20 January , 2008 Share Posted 20 January , 2008 welcome I cant see a medal index card that fits the bill sorry http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...amp;queryType=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnr Posted 20 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2008 Thank you for the reply, there is a hand full of Michael McArdle there, but none for the RFC, can any one give me the proper title for a Air gunner in a bomber. plus would he be given a service medal after straking a officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 20 January , 2008 Share Posted 20 January , 2008 if his punishment was to be moved then would say that was his punishment - therefore he would get medals still should be a MIC (if it was the case it would say on their forfieted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvis Posted 20 January , 2008 Share Posted 20 January , 2008 Hello, I've just had a quick scan for M Mcardle on both CWGC and the NA medal index archives. I can find only 2 RFC Mcardle though not with a forename or initial beginning with M, there are 14 other M Mcardle on the Medal indexes though not RFC, and 2 of these were confirmed by CWGC as died within th 1914-18 period (so we can certainly discount them in your search). Is there a chance of more than one first name for your man ? If he saw service overseas he should be included within the medal indexes. Is there any further information available to help trace him ? Medal card of McArdle, Joseph Corps: Royal Flying Corps Regiment No: 11886 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/12 McARDLE, HUGH FRANCIS Lieutenant DIED 18/09/1917 AGE Unknown Royal Flying Corps ARRAS FLYING SERVICES MEMORIAL Medal card of McArdle, Michael Corps: Army Service Corps Regiment No: DM2/112775 Rank: Private 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael Corps: Army Service Corps Regiment No: RTS/6165 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers Regiment No: 3/20483... 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers Regiment No: 23220 Rank: Private 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael CWGC Died 11/08/1915 Corps: Royal Irish Rifles Regiment No: 6/10910 CWGC records his number as 10910 Rank: Private 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael Corps: Durham Light Infantry Regiment No: 8/4090 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael CWGC Died 02/10/1916 Corps: Durham Light Infantry Regiment No: 8/3860 Rank: Private 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael Corps: North Staffordshire Regiment Regiment No: 23805 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael Corps: South Lancashire Regiment Regiment No: 15287 Rank: Private 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael Corps: Royal Field Artillery Regiment No: 169950 Rank: Driver 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of McArdle, Michael J Corps: Liverpool Regiment Regiment No: 11014 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Medal card of Michael, Michael S Corps: King's Royal Rifle Corps Regiment No: R2831 Rank: Lance Serjeant... Medal card of McArdle, M Corps: Machine Gun Corps Regiment No: 6997 Rank: Serjeant 1914-1920 WO 372/23 Medal card of McArdle, M Corps: Royal Scots Rank: Lieutenant 1914-1920 WO 372/12 Regards. Jarvis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 January , 2008 Share Posted 20 January , 2008 Slight corrections - the air gunners position on HP O/100 and O/400s was the rear (mid upper) gun position. The navigator/bomb aimer also manned the front gun position if needed. This was to reduce weight. (For details see the excelent "Darkness Shall Cover Me" the account of an HP pilot) I have only come up with one example of an HP O/100 being flown in combat wth a complement of four crew - when one was used as an interdiction aircraft to intercept home coming Gothas (with some success) and no bombs were carried. The RFC never used the HP O/400 operationally, by the time they were ready it was the RAF (The other user of O/100s was the RNAS) I suspect that the 2 week life span was somewhat exagerated but probably applies to April 1917 when the new Albatross fighters did so much damage to the by then obsolete BE2es in service. As was ever the case it was the new inexperienced pilots who suffered the most. However if your man was an air gunner on O/400s then either he had a very extended training period on transfer or he was transfered much later than April 1917 by which time, although still hazardous, the pendulum had swung back in the RFCs favour. I would look for your man in the RAF not the RFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnr Posted 20 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2008 Had a other word with my father and this is what he recalls, when grand father struck the officer the troops was falling back into the trench under heave fire, and the officer was not going to go over the top, hence the reason my Great grandfather did not go over the top. He was told it was ether a Court Marshall or join the RFC as a air gunner seems the germen’s were shooting the air gunner first, ether way it was a death sentence as he was told there was a shortage of gunners , this may be the reason he was never court marshalled. My Father also said it could have been a Vickers bomber., and he sure his grand father told him he was a front gunner. From what my father say it sound as my great grand father was doing night bombing as my great grand father describe it as being as black as hell and frozen cold and the only light was what you could see on the ground. Father also thinks he was in the RFC as long as 2 years. My be from 1916 onwards. It’s not so much that my father is 82 years old and can’t remember just the fact that Great Grandfather never talked about what he did in the great war. BUt thanks for your help, I may have a look at some of the medal records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 January , 2008 Share Posted 20 January , 2008 Definitely not Vickers. The Vickers Vimy did not enter service (with the RAF) until after the end of the war. Possibly your GGF saw some service with the post war RAF as well and has concatonated the two. If he flew in HPs at night thats definitely the RAF not the RFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnr Posted 20 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2008 Thanks’ for the link Coldstream, found 3 of my grand father uncle who got service medal's, there only 8 names on the page and they all related. name Codona all Showmen. From what you told me Centurion and what my father has said, I have a picture of my GGF being transferred from the trench's around 1917 to the RFC as a air gunner. and bye end of the war in the RAF as a gunner on the Hadley’s bombers doing night runs. most likely as a rear gunner if not front, or one of the gunner positions. You info has made the picture clearer Regarding my GGf getting a medal he may have used a other name, or the records are lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 23 January , 2008 Share Posted 23 January , 2008 still should be a MIC Not neccessarily, these are all army MICs, and RFC personnel only appear if they earned army awards; generally this meant the stars and gallantry medals. Occasionally it is noted on the Army MICs if someone had transferred to the RFC or RAF, but by no means all. On 1 April 1918 the RFC became part of the RAF and the Air Ministry issued their medals seperately these were primarily the British War and Victory Medals; their MICs have not been released to the public. RAF service records exist, but are stored in service number order in AIR 79 at Kew; there is an incomplete index in AIR78. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 23 January , 2008 Share Posted 23 January , 2008 Thanks- didnt know that. wonder why these havent been released ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted 23 January , 2008 Share Posted 23 January , 2008 I`m with you on this coldstreamer. JNR specifically states his relatives first unit of service 'overseas' was with an infantry regiment, there should be an MIC, because his medals are indeed earned through service with the army. I think the reason why we cannot find the MIc is because this man enlisted with another forename. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 23 January , 2008 Share Posted 23 January , 2008 good conclusion - medals would be impressed to 1st unit served with in theatre - therefore should be army MIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killratio Posted 24 January , 2008 Share Posted 24 January , 2008 Jnr, I'll check a couple of references tonight. Given the time period and a couple of your comments I may be able to track him down. Darryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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