oak Posted 20 January , 2008 Share Posted 20 January , 2008 I'd be very grateful if any Pal could recommend a book on the French in Gallipoli. Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 20 January , 2008 Share Posted 20 January , 2008 I'd be very grateful if any Pal could recommend a book on the French in Gallipoli. Regards, Philip On the French and in French? Some years ago I read a French book in French on the French (and others) at Gallipoli which I felt was one of the better secondary sources that I had read on Gallipoli. But it would take a bit of work to try to track it down. Are you interested? Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 21 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2008 Many thanks for your kind offer Bob, Unfortunately my knowledge of French isn't good enough to read a book in French. No, I'm afraid it would have to be a book in English on the French experience in Gallipoli. My particular interest is the taking over by the French after the landing at V Beach/Sedd-el-Bahr and the French naval experience at the Dardanelles. Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 21 January , 2008 Share Posted 21 January , 2008 Philip There's George H Cassar's 1970 book The French and the Dardanelles, ISBN 0 94 940034 7 which rather focuses on the political/strategic aspects of the French involvement. It's also pretty dull reading - I've had a copy since 1977 and haven't managed to get past the opening chapter in any of the several attempts I've made to read it. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 21 January , 2008 Share Posted 21 January , 2008 I agree with Gareth's review. It is the only book that I have come across so far that is dedicated to the French efforts, albeit at a different level. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 21 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2008 Many thanks Gareth and Robert, Gareth, it sounds as if it's as difficult to get past the first chapter as it was to get past the Dardanelles defences Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 21 January , 2008 Share Posted 21 January , 2008 The bulk of the French action at the Dardanelles was confined to the Asiatic side, i.e. in Turkey so not strictly speaking, in Gallipoli. It was a very small sideshow for the French from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 21 January , 2008 Share Posted 21 January , 2008 Small sideshow? Seems a bit harsh, bearing in mind that over 14,000 of them were on a one-way ticket when they went there. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 21 January , 2008 Share Posted 21 January , 2008 Every single death was a tragedy to at least one family but as far as Joffre was concerned and looking at French casualties overall, I maintain that it was a sideshow as it was for Britain and as the Salonika and Mesopotamian campaigns were for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infantry Posted 21 January , 2008 Share Posted 21 January , 2008 Matthew Hughes wrote some articles about French Army Gallipoli. Not much tactical details but giving the overall performance and affects of it brilliantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 21 January , 2008 Share Posted 21 January , 2008 The French initially landed at Kum Kale on the Asiatic side, but were then placed on the right of the British at Helles for the entire campaign, occupying approximately half the Helles sector. Theirs was no sideshow. A good book (in English) is: Vassal, J. 'Uncensored Letters From the Dardanelles, Written to his English Wife by a French Medical Officer of the Corps Expeditionnaire D'Orient', London, Heinemann, 1916. Bryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 22 January , 2008 Share Posted 22 January , 2008 Bryn; On Topic, if off on a tangent. I haven't seen you post recently, so I don't know what you have seen on the Forum lately. I remember your interest in the question of access into the Turkish archives. Two books are coming out soon, by authors that I believe have in part based their work on the Turkish archives. An e-friend of mine, Klaus Wolf, is coming out with a book soon, to be published in German by Report-Verlag in March and also soon in Turkish. (He plans an English edition but that will be further off.) The book will be, in part, based on work in German archives that I never even thought of, but I also know for sure that he has worked in the Turkish archives. (He has Modern Turkish; one can ask if anyone has Ottoman Turkish, unfortunately.) So I assume that the book will also include material from the Turkish archives. However, I believe that his book is focused on the specific topic of Turkish-German cooperation during WW I, and specifically Gallipoli. He sent me a few documents from a German archive, part of a great trove that he located, and in five seconds I knew more on the topic I am interested in re: Gallipoli than I had found in 6-7 years of research in English, German, French, and three pages of Turkish that I half-translated in days of extreme pain. (Turkish infixes are absolutely murder and make good dictionaries to some extent useless.) The other book will be by Professor Haluk Oral, a professor of mathematics but also an avid student of Gallipoli. I don't have particular information on it, other than it has already been published in Turkish and English, and that it has been published in lavish form, but that therefore it is expensive. I have heard that a less expensive edition is being considered. I have no direct information, but I would be astonished if his book is not based in part on work in the Turkish archives. Returning to the initial question by oak, as so few works on the French side of Gallipoli have been uncovered by the Pals, I will, tomorrow, attempt to dig up the French work that I read about six years ago, despite it being in French, and thus of less use for oak. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 22 January , 2008 Share Posted 22 January , 2008 Information on the French at Galipoli can be found in "Men of Galipoli" Peter Liddle, "Paths of Glory The French Army 1914-1918" Anthony Clayton, and Galipoli The and Now" Steve Newman. According to the latter book the dead include Australian 8709, NZ 2701, French (including colonial troops from North and Central Africa) 9874, and Indian 7594! I know this does sound odd since most accounts of the campaign concentrate on the ANZACs and British and neglect the French who had a force about the same size as the ANZACs. As for the Indians they get totally ignored except for a line or two here and there. There is a posting about the French at Galipoli on the "Axis History Forum.com" which does have some pictures posted of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 23 January , 2008 Share Posted 23 January , 2008 The most consistently inaccurate figure for allied casualties at Gallipoli, quoted in many sources, is that for the Indians. In some places (including -at least last time I visited - in the Australian War Memorial), this is given as more than 7,000 - a figure far above the true number of Indian army deaths which were more like 1, 891. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 23 January , 2008 Share Posted 23 January , 2008 I believe the French had more deaths than the Anzacs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 23 January , 2008 Share Posted 23 January , 2008 I am not in any way demeaning the men who fought and died at Gallipoli. I include all sides in that. Nevertheless, the numbers of men involved, the results of the campaign, except for the Turkish soldiers who fought off an attempted invasion, its failure to draw off any significant numbers of the German Army, the views and criticisms by both Joffre and Sir John French and most military historians since, tend to one view. This was an unsuccessful diversion from the fighting on the Western front. It was a diversion of men and supplies which could well have been put to better use in France and Flanders. It was a sideshow and all the more tragic that so many men displayed the heroism that they did and met a tragic death in such an action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 23 January , 2008 Share Posted 23 January , 2008 I went thru my timeline that covers Gallipoli and I could find no reference to the French book that I read years ago. That probably means that I read it even before I set up my series of timelines that I use to organize and reference my readings. So it is unlikely that I can easily find the citation for the book. I think it was some sort of official or semi-official history, not a personal narrative or a privately conceived secondary source. I probably borrowed it from my wife's library, which has 8 million books. As I have no memory how I was led to it, it would be difficult to find it again. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted 24 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2008 Pals, Many thanks to all who have taken the time to contribute to this thread. Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 31 January , 2008 Share Posted 31 January , 2008 Thanks for the correct number of Indian dead. Someone needs to contact ATB about this. Also of note about the French at Galipoli their troops went ashore wearing the pre and early uniforms ; blue coat and red trousers which sort pf made them stand out somewhat! They were replaced as the campaign went on by horizon blue and khaki. They also found while digging a trench some acient artifacts so a archeologist was sent from France who conducted a dig and sent all the artifacts back to France. Thats according to Galipoli Then & Now. Does anyone know where they are today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Posted 31 January , 2008 Share Posted 31 January , 2008 I am currently reading "Defeat at Gallipoli" by Nigel Steele & Peter Hart, first published in 1994. Whilst not specifically about the French it has numerous references to their troops,including the actions they were involved in and some of the ones they were supposed to be involved in and weren't. It's an easy to read book with good referneces and quotes from letters and diaries of the period. Ther only reason I have no finished it is because at this time of the year I am to busy for reading. Come the winter and the cooler weather I may well get through it. Numerous other Gallipoli books I have also contain references to the frogs but I do not have them to hand at the moment but can look them up if required. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 10 February , 2008 Share Posted 10 February , 2008 The French are Gallipoli are vary poorly documented, as you have probably realised. I'm sorry to say that it is a campaign that the French have quietly forgotten to the point where even their battlefield memorials have crumbled and virtually diasppeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 15 February , 2008 Share Posted 15 February , 2008 If the French are ignored or forgotten, what about this? I had a group of Australian guests stay with us last year and they could not believe that the French were there at all! When I showed them the CWGC pamplet on casualty figures, which also revealed thet the Brits had more KIA than the ANZACS and French put together, they were dumbfounded to say the least! They HONESTLY believed that Gallipoli was an all ANZAC battle! Great bunch of people but totaly ill informed! Such a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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