Zeppelin Logs

[Tranby1]

Hello,

I am keen establish when Zeppelins passed over the village of Brough in East Yorkshire during WW1. Is anyone aware of the existence of any form of log or other observations which may detail which Zeppelins traversed the area and when?

[centurion]

Zeppelin navigation was often very rudimentary and a lot of the time their crews were lost. Large towns and cities could be located and identified (although many mistakes were made - eg Lowestoft bombed in mistake for Harwich) but its doubtful that a Zeppline crew would know if it passed over a particular village much less log it.

[Brigantian]

Tranby1

Just spotted this thread.

Each Zeppelin maintained a Kriegstagebücher (KTB) or War Diary. This was used to record weights, bomb load, ammunition, ballast, etc. It also contains a timed log, a mission narrative and a chart showing the airship’s plotted position throughout the mission. The plots could be based on ground observation and/or wireless bearings from transmitters in Germany, both of which are subject to errors.

As Centurion suggests, Zeppelin often became lost over mainland England. However, visibility permitting, Zeppelin crews could usually recognise coastal locations and rivers. They could also often make out railway lines. Given Brough’s location on the Humber and on the NE Railway it is possible that a crew might know they were overhead, assuming of course they carried detailed and accurate maps. They would be unlikely to log it unless there was a reason, e.g. being engaged by a nearby AA Battery.

Following each raid, the Intelligence Section, GHQ, Home Forces, prepared an intelligence report. These detailed the identity of each participating Zeppelin with a summary of bombs dropped, damage caused, engagements by AA guns and/or aircraft, etc. They also contained a plot of the route travelled by each airship. These are based on bearings of intercepted Zeppelin wireless transmissions and ground reports. Although also subject to error they are generally are more accurate than those plotted by Zeppelin crews.

I am not aware of an easy way to ascertain whether and when Zeppelins overflew Brough, unless the East Riding County Records Office or Hull City Library holds something. If not, and you are really keen to find out, one option is to get hold of a list of Zeppelin raids (The German Air Raids On Great Britain 1914-1918 by Captain Joseph Morris covers the lot), identify those likely to involve airship activity over the Humber area (i.e. raids on Yorkshire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk and Westwards) and then look up the reports for each raid in The National Archives. If any show plotted routes near or over Brough you might wish to get hold of the KTB. The surviving originals are in Germany, but there are microfilmed copies in the US National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). You could pay for a researcher to obtain copies (or you could make a personal visit) and of course they are written in German so some translation may be required.

If you do look into it further I would be interested to hear how you get on. Would also be interested to hear if you come across a list of Hull Air Raid warnings – been after one for a while!

Regards

Mark

[centurion]

Mark

Zeppelins raiding Britain took wireless bearings from stations all over Europe including French ones. (German stations were too far away for there to be a clear distiction in the angle of bearing) In 1915 this was pretty primitive but they refined it. Then in 1917 British and French counter wireless units found ways to make one station's signals ressemble those from another (so in effect moving them around) and Zepp navigation began to revert to confusion. In the early years I don't think they were able even to correctly recognise major rivers, coastal landmarks etc. Ther's a case of one Zepp flying up the river Lea thinking it was the Thames even though the compass bearing must hve been off by 90 degrees. And there are lots of cases of one coastal town being bombed in mistake for another. Plots tracking the Zepps from bearings taken on their radio siganal by ground stations would be more likely but, since such transmissions could also be plotted by British and French stations (with a phone line to the relevant fighter field) I think that radio silence was maintained as much as possible (It was the North Sear Navy recce Zepps that were the chatterboxes)

[Brigantian]

Centurion

This is a most interesting topic and, come retirement, one I would like to research further. My knowledge of Zeppelin operations is mainly based on the raid on Sheffield of 25/26 September 1916. At that time requests for radio bearings were transmitted from the Zeppelin to receivers in Germany (or possibly German occupied territory). The position was calculated and sent to the Zeppelin as a grid square reference for plotting on a code chart. I do not know when this system was introduced.

Whilst the Germans recognised that the British would monitor their radios they did not appreciate the level of sophistication reached by the Admiralty wireless intelligence service. The National Archives holds a series of movement reports and charts based on the interception of Zeppelin wireless transmissions.

In late 1917/early 1918, the Germans turned the system on its head. The new method used two radio transmitting stations one near Cleve in the Rhineland and the other at Tondern (then German, but now part of Denmark). At quarter to and quarter past each hour these transmitted directional signals. The Zeppelins received the signals and using a stop watch and a Great Circle chart calculated their position. This allowed the Zeppelins to work out their location without giving it away to the Admiralty listening stations. I have no idea how effective this was in practice.

I have copies of the logs for Zeppelins L-21 and L-22, on the night of the Sheffield raid. They nicely illustrate the navigational difficulties experienced over Britain at that time.

According to the GHQ intelligence report, L-21 crossed the Lincolnshire coast at Sutton-on-Sea, skirted around Sheffield, and headed into Lancashire where it bombed several places, including Bolton, killing twelve persons. Its log records crossing the coast north of the Wash at Chapel St. Leonards (only a short distance South of Sutton on Sea), but then describes bombing Derby!

The GHQ report says L-22 crossed the Lincolnshire coast at Mablethorpe, headed directly to Sheffield, bombed the city, killing 28 people, headed North East, crossed the Humber at Immingham and went back out to sea at Aldbrough.

L-22’s log records, “The coast, which could be clearly made out, was crossed at Mablethorpe at 11.40pm.” After this heavy mist created navigational difficulties, but the crew saw lights on the ground, headed towards them and found themselves over a “clearly visible city”. At the time this was thought to be Lincoln and the entire load of high explosive bombs and incendiaries was dropped. After returning to their base the course was recalculated and showed that the bombed city was in fact Sheffield (the intended target). The crew were also able to report being fired on by a ship anchored near Spurn Point. This was HMS Patrol, moored at Immingham, which fired one round at the Zeppelin.

An Admiralty wireless intelligence report on the raid commented that L-22 “used her wireless frequently” and a number of bearings were obtained although, owing to unfavourable conditions, positions could not be calculated as accurately as usual. L-22’s log shows that at least six “Radiotelegraphy Station” bearings were obtained during the mission.

Regards

Mark

[Roger Deeks]

Brigantian,

I am researching an account of two 1916 Zeppelin raids made by a wounded man in Wharncliffe War Hospital. He briefly describes the raid of 25/26 September and another on the 1/2 October. In the October raid he describes them going over at around midnight and returning at 4.00am and states 'no bombs'. In the earlier raid he wrote: 'The 'bungers' were going for warning and several bombs were dropped.' The term 'bungers' might not have been transcribed properly, do you have any idea what this is?

Is there a National Archive reference for the GHQ intelligence report on the flights related to 25/26 September?

Many thanks,

Roger

[Brigantian]

Roger

Welcome to the forum!

I was very interested to hear of your man in Wharncliffe War Hospital.

Could ‘bungers’ could be ‘buzzers’, the term used for air raid warning sirens?

The air raid warning for Sheffield was given at 10.56 pm on 25 September 1916 and L-22 bombed the City around 12.20 am.

Two air raid warnings were given in Sheffield during the raid of 1/2 October 1916. The first was given at 10.46 pm on the 1st and the other at 3.27 am on the 2nd. I haven’t fully researched this raid, although I do know a Zeppelin was reported in the vicinity of Sheffield at some point.

I will PM you about the GHQ reports for the night of 25/26 September 1916.

Regards

Mark