Cnock Posted 22 December , 2007 Share Posted 22 December , 2007 Hello, Has somebody seen this pic before? Should be British plane downed between Dixmude and Ypres in 1915, or 1916. Does any one knows what plane it is. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 22 December , 2007 Share Posted 22 December , 2007 I can't help with identification, I'm afraid, but it looks beyond economic repair ... Does the wheel in the foreground belong to the aircraft? Thanks for all the fascinating photos you've shared during the year — best wishes for Christmas and 2008. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 22 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 December , 2007 Hi Mick, Thank You, best wishes for Christmas and 2008 to You and Your family. The plane has 4 wheels, the pilots' burnt corpse is still in the plane wreck. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 22 December , 2007 Share Posted 22 December , 2007 That forward wheel is important. A numer of British types had a three wheel undercarriage (Some varieties of FE2, RE7 etc) but the forward wheel was smaller. However if there is another wheel that is out of shot then I'd go for a Voisin LA some of which served with the RFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 22 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 December , 2007 Hi Centurion, I have 2 different sources stating it was a British pilot. One wheel is out of view on the pic. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 22 December , 2007 Share Posted 22 December , 2007 Cnock I'd say then that it was a French built Voisin LA of no.4 sqn RFC broought down by a German aircraft 21st July 1915. Pilot Corp V. Judge, Observer 2nd Lt J Parker. Judge was made PoW, Parker died of wounds. Possibly Parker has been wrongly ascribed as the pilot being the commissioned officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted 23 December , 2007 Share Posted 23 December , 2007 Cnock, Though the aircraft certainly looks like a Voisin (from the wheels, connecting tubes and rigging etc etc) it may not be the one flown by corporal Judge on the 21st July 1915. H A Jones "The War in the Air - Vol 2" states that this aircraft from Number 4 squadron (based at Bailleul in mid 1915 I think) was on a lone reconnaisance to Bapaume (near Albert). This would put it a long way away from your position of somewhere between Ypres and Dixmude. Regards Steve PS You mention that the pilot's corpse is still in the wreckage. In the case of Corporal Judge and 2nd Lt Parker, it states in the book that the pilot was made prisoner and the officer died of his wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted 23 December , 2007 Share Posted 23 December , 2007 Cnock, This gets more interesting. I had a look in TSTB and according to Henshaw only a few Voisin's were shot down behind enemy lines, and these were in March, May and July 1915. And of these he only reports two instances where the pilot or observer died. One is the aircraft mentioned above by Centurian and the other is Number 1877 Voisin LA of 16 squadron in which Captain A G Fox was KIA on 9th May 1915 when his aircraft crashed east of the lines at 4:00 am. Unfortunately once again this happened further south to the area you are interested in, over Cambrai. There was one Voisin (number 3823 of 1 Sqn RNAS) brought down over Dixmude on 12th May 1915, but both pilot and observer were reported as beiing taken POW. Are you absolutely certain that the pilot died in crash and that the aircraft crashed between Dixmude and Ypres as there does not appear to be an incident involving a Voisin that matches all of these conditions - though of course I'm assuming that Trevor Henshaw is correct in what he has stated in TSTB. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 24 December , 2007 Share Posted 24 December , 2007 Cnock One question that springs to mind is how definite is the identification of the crashed aircraft being British? If it was a French Voisin, the task of identifying the aeroplane in question becomes a little more difficult. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 24 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 24 December , 2007 Hello everybody, Thanks for the interesting replies. The pic is from the book 'Flieger an allen Fronten' published in 1936, caption says 'burned Engländer' I am aware this means not much. But then I have an original pic , from the same wreckage, in the foto album of a German soldier. His personnal caption is that the British plane crashed burning in German lines, near Dixmude. I said before that the plane crashed between Dixmude and Ypres, but looking where this German soldier was in action (Yser), it also could be East or North of Dixmude. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted 25 December , 2007 Share Posted 25 December , 2007 Cnock, If that's the case it could well be the 1 Sqn RNAS Voisin as that's the only one I could find that was lost behind enemy lines near Dixmude. If the only proof you have that the pilot was burned in the crash is the caption "burned Engländer" that could also be translated as "a burnt-out English Plane". In "TSTB" it states that Voisin 3823 flew from St Pol to attack a Zeppelin returning from a bombing mission in the UK and was forced to land at Dixmude, east of the allied lines. Both pilot (FLt J O Groves) and observer (LCdr H Dobell) were taken POW, to Switzerland on 22nd May 1918. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 25 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 December , 2007 Hi Steve, A time ago I saw another original pic of the same burnt plane, and the caption at the back stated that the pilot was still in the wreck. But I agree with Your conclusion, must be the Voisin of 1Sqn RNAS ,downed on 12/5/1915. Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 25 December , 2007 Share Posted 25 December , 2007 I believe that the Belgians were operating Voisins in much the same area. So one possibility is that the nationality was mistaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 26 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2007 Hi Centurion, I still believe it was British. Another pic Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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