JimSmithson Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 I could not get under the wood in any places except one where I could see concrete. The photo has not come out as well as I had hoped. You could see metal pieces as well. Someone may well come along and tell me exactly what these are - I would be thrilled. If not, I would love to ask the farmer for a closer look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 Just to confirm position when back home I used the excellent Linesman to compare. First the position on a modern map. and then the comparison on a trench map (same marker - honest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 Bang in the middle of the strong point marked on the trench map. If these remaining bunkers give an indication of what each of these points on the H.Line are like then I beginning to understand the problems faced by 64th Brigade. The 9th KOYLI would have been attacking these bunkers - they never got there, being held up a little before where the motorway now runs. The other flag on the modern map shows another bunker that is well known but I got the chance due to time of year to cross over to it and have a closer look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 By the way, at no point did I cross a fence or crops - I tried to be an inobtrusive as I could although I realise that in the field I was trespassing - hope the farmer can forgives me. I will talk to my neighbours and find out who it is and go and apologies. This is the large bunker marked by the other flag. I would live the experts on the Forum here to give us chapter and verse on this monstrosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 Jim, I love this kind of thread, any more photographs, particularly of bunkers ? Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 The last photo is a front view, this is the rear. 2 entrances, connected inside leadng to the front positions. Didn't delve as to how it might have gone downwards - would need digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 This is a view of one of the two firing positions - the munition experts will hopefully tell us how this metal bit worked. This bunker is also position on the Hindenburg Line between the first and second lines in the kink where it faces south for a couple of hundred metres. Hope these are of some interest to folk and that someone can shed some more light on the designs, especially of the last bunker. I'm off to write my bit on the 64th Brigade now. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastLancs Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 Fascinating thread ! All to often Arras is overshadowed by more famous battles but the quotes and pictures on here just helps remind us that these were real people in a real landscape, dying in their hundreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 OK Mick - I've got one more find for now. Despite being in the area SE of Neuville Vitasse a number of times, I missed this bunker, right in the front line of the Hindenburg Line. Probably due to crops. The farmer kindly let me wander over and have a look. If you look up the hill from here you an just make out the 2 other bunkers on top of the hill which I put on here earlier in the tread. It allows you to follow the front line perfectly as shown on the maps that follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 Modern map showing the 3 bunker positions To be followed by the trench map from March 1917 (thanks to Linesman again for being able to do this) Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 23 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2009 Fascinating, Jim, absolutely fascinating. Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 23 February , 2009 Share Posted 23 February , 2009 Thanks Jim, I'm a bunker junkie ! Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 24 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Bang in the middle of the strong point marked on the trench map. If these remaining bunkers give an indication of what each of these points on the H.Line are like then I beginning to understand the problems faced by 64th Brigade. The 9th KOYLI would have been attacking these bunkers - they never got there, being held up a little before where the motorway now runs. The other flag on the modern map shows another bunker that is well known but I got the chance due to time of year to cross over to it and have a closer look. Hi, I recognize this bunker in my German trenchmap. In a short distance of Heninel in south-west. Marked as K.T.K. II./R.84 for Kampftruppenkommandeur II. Bataillon Reserve-Infanterieregiment 84 means headquarters of front-battalion, at 9th april 1917 this was the second battalion of R.I.R. 84 (18. Reservedivision, IX. Reservekorps) Jim, I will send you the whole map. A lot of Mebu and other concret places are mentioned in it. May be they are still existing like those you discovered. Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Hello, Thanks for the interesting pics and maps! Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastLancs Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Are there any underground German bunkers that you can still go down into? I understood that they were well built and deep, do any survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Jim, you said you wanted chapter and verse...sorry, that may take some time, but the photos should provide some info. Other photos of these bunkers under construction available if you want further details. I do not agree however that it is a "monstrosity".....this was the bees knees in military architecture of the period. The metal piece you refer to was the armoured observation system.(2 per bunker), you can find these in several German bunkers.....including the reused one under the Newfoundland Memorial in Monchy. continuation continuation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Could look at these all day ! Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Here's a British photo and drawing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 These lads were not responsible for the design, but the solidity is down to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Fantastic Mebu - superb pictures that make sense of where I was. The plan is really good because I was able to work my way around the layout but must admit I don't really understand it. Why the 2 side entrances and then the 2 'doors' at the back? Fritz - the KTK is in the second line, the 'wood piles' are all on the front line. I agree that the KTK will have been directly behind the bunkers in question. Anyone any idea whether it is worth getting the farmer to clear one of his 'piles' - maybe the big one! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 24 February , 2009 Share Posted 24 February , 2009 Here's a map same sector as Fritz's showing what was constructed. Quite a few are still there (one of Jim's maps shows abris on modern IGN map, between the 2 marked) but not always easy to spot. Regards, Peter PS Fritz....very interesting map....if you are sending to Jim, could I please ask to be copied? Many Thanks. PPS the Fontaine picture posted earlier today in "then and now" thread is the pioneerpark for this sector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 25 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 February , 2009 Hello mebu, please send me your email-address by PM so that I can give you a copy of this map. Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 25 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 February , 2009 This is the large bunker marked by the other flag. Jim, this large bunker, is it situated in the second line? Means is this the KTK? Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 25 February , 2009 Share Posted 25 February , 2009 No Fritz - this is the one marked on my map in post 77 at point 108 (bottom right of map). It lies half way between the front and second line and now I see that it is meant as a observation bunker. My question is, the bunkers in the field covered in wood and earth are in the front line, would these have been machine gun posts - they are much smaller than the one above but there are 4 of them in close proximity with a trench surrounding them on the map? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 25 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 25 February , 2009 Perhaps mebu or other bunker experts can help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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