raich Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 Hi, I'm looking for a trench map of Flers - does anyone have one that could be sent to me by PM???? Here's hoping. Thanks Raich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 Hi Raich Flers is a pain as it lies on the corner/edge of most trench maps. There is one with Flers centred for 130716 but it is lacking the kind of detail that I assume you want (ie the attack on Flers in September). I am sending 3 images of Flers, 2 with approaches from the south and one from the northern map. I am new to the Forum so please be patient if I don't get the PM correct first time; or shall I attach them to a reply, I am a bit new at this. I have zoomed in on Flers so if you want a wider picture let me know. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 copy sent - hope it is of use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raich Posted 17 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Thanks guys, most helpful. Happy Christmas Raich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 for everyone who is interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Delta Are these the British trenches after the 15th September attack? Switch Trench was the German 3rd (or 4th, not sure) line in Mid-July and the old German line just south of Flers became Flers Trench after the attack. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Yes, but Raich was interested in Tea trench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 18 December , 2007 Share Posted 18 December , 2007 What is the source of this map and what is the date for it? Most of the maps I have seen for this area are lacking such detail. Thanks, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 18 December , 2007 Share Posted 18 December , 2007 Yes, please do tell. That's why I asked about it above, I've not seen its like before either. Thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 18 December , 2007 Share Posted 18 December , 2007 I found it on a website about the New Zealand Division - it is not a map, rather a diagram, but it must have been based on an map from somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 18 December , 2007 Share Posted 18 December , 2007 took me a while to find it but:...... http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/CowMaor-...wMaorP026a.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunt Posted 18 December , 2007 Share Posted 18 December , 2007 I have maps that cover Flers (just) dated 15/08/16 and 07/10/16 but not in the detail that diagram shows. I'm interested in this area too but around Les Boeufs again Mid september attacks. (Just off that map/diagram) I dont suppose anyone can send me anything covering Les Boeufs area for mid September.. ??? Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raich Posted 20 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2007 Thanks to everyone that has helped me. since posting this thread, I've taken posession of Flers & Guedecourt by Trevor Pidgeon (Battleground Europe series) - which is excellent, has lot's of trench maps and photos, and is more infantry based than his book on the Tanks at Flers (in his own words). It also shows how the infantry lined up for these battles and where the tanks went. For anyone interested in the 18th KRRC, I've plotted their lines and objectives for the 15th September on the map below. SP = Strong Point i.e. where a machine gun post was to be set up and 'A' refers to the company whose objective the Strong point was. Happy Christmas Raich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 20 December , 2007 Share Posted 20 December , 2007 Raich - that's a most useful map - can I blag it stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raich Posted 20 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2007 Raich - that's a most useful map - can I blag it stephen Sure, if you let me know what you're after i.e. what regiment then I can look in this book too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 20 December , 2007 Share Posted 20 December , 2007 I've got the book but only read it from the Tankees point of view - will reread it over Christmas Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 21 December , 2007 Share Posted 21 December , 2007 Longueval 29-09-1916Hope this helps Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 21 December , 2007 Share Posted 21 December , 2007 I'm interested in this area too but around Les Boeufs again Mid september attacks. (Just off that map/diagram) I dont suppose anyone can send me anything covering Les Boeufs area for mid September.. ??? Regards Chris Chris Les Boeufs from map 57CSW4-6A-06-01-1917 Combles - Secret Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raich Posted 21 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 December , 2007 I've got the book but only read it from the Tankees point of view - will reread it over Christmas Stephen Hi Stephen, There's also bits and bobs in the 18th KRRC annals v5 i.e. Extract from Annals of the KRRC Vol. V, The Great War by Major-General Sir Steuart Hare. Pges 166-169. 15 September, 1916 "Next to the left of the 14th Division came the 41st. It attacked with the 124th Brigade on the right with two battalions in the front line--10th Queen's on the right, 21st KRRC on the left; the 122nd Brigade was on the left, with the 15th Hampshire on the right, the 18th KRRC on the left. The dividing line between the two brigades passed through the middle of the village of Flers. The 18th Battalion made an unfortunate start, which might well have affected the whole operation. Just as the attack was about to commence, the Commanding Officer (Lieut.-Colonel C. P. Marten, West Yorkshire Regiment), the Adjutant (Captain F. Walton), the Signalling Officer (Lieutenant W. S. Mathews), and the Trench Mortar Officer (Lieutenant D. S. D. Clark) were all killed by one shell. It speaks volumes for the training and discipline of the Battalion that, after this catastrophe, the attack was carried to a successful conclusion. At 6.20 a.m. the infantry advanced behind the barrage, and the first objective was taken at about 6.45. The Germans did not stand except for the machine-gun detachments, which, as usual, stuck it out manfully, and inflicted heavy casualties on the attackers, especially among the officers. Seven out of ten tanks had crossed the front line, and reached the objective two minutes ahead of the infantry. Consolidation was begun at once, and at 7.20 a.m. the attack was continued behind the barrage, four tanks being still in action. The infantry got ahead of the tanks, but there was little opposition. The enemy's barrage, however, was very heavy. In one place the troops were stopped by uncut wire, but two tanks came up and made gaps in it. By 8 a.m. the second objective, a trench running through the extreme southern end of Flers, had been taken, and consolidation begun. At 8.10 a.m. 4 tanks entered Flers, followed by the infantry. The tanks did most effective work hunting out machine-gun nests. The village was cleared by 10 a.m., but there was much disorganization and mixing of units owing to the heavy casualties among the officers. The village was very heavily shelled, and at one time it looked as if the troops would be shelled out of it. At 10.20 a.m. a party of about 100 men and 2 machine guns, led by Captain R. Baskett, 18th KRRC, reached the third objective, and established themselves in two works, called Box and Cox, just north of the village, in touch with the New Zealanders on their left. At this time the 124th Brigade had got out of touch to the east of the village, but in touch with the 14th Division. Lieut.-Colonel the Earl of Feversham, Commanding the 21st KRRC, and Lieut.-Colonel Oakley, 10th Queen's, with as many men as they could collect, advanced against the third objective, the same trench which, farther along, had been the limit of the advance of the 9th Rifle Brigade, captured it and held it for some time against more than one counter-attack. During this time Lord Faversham was killed. This party was in the end obliged to fall back east of the village. However, by the end of the day a line was established by the Division running round the north side of the village and connecting up with the 14th Division on the right and the New Zealanders on the left. This was the greatest advance made by any division in the course of the day. The casualties of our two battalions were: 18th Battalion: officers--killed, in addition to those already named, Major P. G. Sadd, Captain J. B. Lester, Lieutenant C. N. Curwen, 2nd Lieutenant J. J. Langford; wounded 7; other ranks--killed 57, wounded 227, died of wounds 3, missing 59. Total of all ranks, 360. 21st Battalion: officers--killed, Lieutenant-Colonel the Earl of Feversham, 2nd Lieutenants T. P. A. Hervey, R. B. Nivison,; wounded 10; other ranks--killed 54, wounded 256, missing 70. Total of all ranks, 394. The 21st Battalion was relieved at 3 a.m. the next day by the 11th Queen's; the 18th Battalion was not relieved till September 18." And also I've found some good info in 12th (Bermondsey) Bn East Surrey Regiment in the Great War book. They were behind the 18th KRRC on the left hand side of the 122 Bde attack, and when the First Line were mowed down by machine gun fire, they amalgamated with the other Bns (as lots of officers were wounded) and followed the tanks into Flers... Raich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunt Posted 21 December , 2007 Share Posted 21 December , 2007 Guy, thanks for that, think I might be adding something to my xmas list... Reards Cris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 21 December , 2007 Share Posted 21 December , 2007 Raich - thank you for the quote - it does indeed dsay a lot that the Bn was able to get on, depite the loss of the Command team Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 21 December , 2007 Share Posted 21 December , 2007 Chris The trenches on the Les Boeufs map above are British. The map for September shows virtually no trenches around Les Boeufs if that is the period you are interested in. I can't print it up here as I haven't got my head around getting the images uploaded yet. Maybe Guy can do you the 10-57CSW4-4A-240916-Combles, he seems a wizard at that. Yes - Linesman is a very good investment, next on my list is the GPS bit to add to my PDA! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 24 December , 2007 Share Posted 24 December , 2007 I can when I get a minute, just let me get the next few days out of the way! Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 24 December , 2007 Share Posted 24 December , 2007 Chris The trenches on the Les Boeufs map above are British. The map for September shows virtually no trenches around Les Boeufs if that is the period you are interested in. I can't print it up here as I haven't got my head around getting the images uploaded yet. Maybe Guy can do you the 10-57CSW4-4A-240916-Combles, he seems a wizard at that. Yes - Linesman is a very good investment, next on my list is the GPS bit to add to my PDA! Jim Here is 57CSW4-4A-24-09-1916-Combles The last one I posted was far more informative though Seasons Greetings Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunt Posted 25 December , 2007 Share Posted 25 December , 2007 Guy and Jim - many thanks! Merry Xmas!! (I got my wife an expensive present so she can't moan when I order Linesman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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