Jonathan Saunders Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 A friend of mine believes Alfred Taylor was one of the 200 volunteers from the Grand Fleet that formed the naval storming party at Zeebrugge. Thet hought process for this is that Alfred died from his wounds the next day. His service papers include the typed Remarks entry "Participated in ballot for V.C. granted for operations against Zeebrugge & Ostend, 22-23 April 1918 (London Gazette 23.7.18)." As he died on the 24th April 1918, does this suggest he was one of the four sailors selected for the V.C. ballot (as most likely too badly wounded to cast a vote in it)? The London Gazette for Tuesday 23rd July 1918 (Number 30807, Fourth Supplement to that dated 19th July), makes no mention of Alfred Taylor in its 15 pages of Zeebrugge and Ostend awards - not even in the Mentions in Despatches. In view of the entry on his service paper and his death from wounds, I am asking for opinions as to whether you think he was one of the four names put forward in the ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorts Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 A scan of the typed up ballet sheet can be found here: http://www.victoriacross.co.uk/zeebrugge%20items.html Taylor is not one of the men who had his name put forward as a nomination. Only those who had taken part in the raid were eligible to vote, including those who were wounded. I have details on a marine who was WiA at Zeebrugge but nevertheless still participated in the vote, so maybe he had his say before he died? Not all awards for Zeebrugge were published in the London Gazette you mentioned. However, if the CWGC and his service papers do not mention an award then I find it unlikely he received one. Hope this clears this up, even if it is not what you might have hoped for Best Regards, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 Alex I think that the typed list shown refers only to RMLI and RMA as Leading Seaman McKenzie RN who was awarded a balloted VC is not on it. I see that the RM ballot was held on 26th April, two days after Alfred Taylor died. Does anyone know the date of the ballot for the Royal Navy? Was it done earlier or at the same time as the RM ballot? If the latter it becomes certain that the wording on the record means that Taylor was a candidate rather than just a voter. I have a copy of the Cert of Service of William Henry Gough who was part of the landing party (he carried one of the portable Morris 'one shot' flamethrowers with which he hosed down a German vessel moored against the Mole). He was originally RNAS as his rank was Acting AM I in April 1918. The exact wording on his record reads: "23 July 1918 Mentioned in despatches for services in Zeebrugge and Ostend Operations 22/23 April 18. (signed) CH Swain Participated in Ballot for award of the Victoria Cross granted for operations against Zeebrugge and Ostend on the night of the 22nd-23rd April 1918 (London Gazette 23rd July 1918) Inserted at Admiralty A.G.9A/5618856 CGA 22 Dec 1920." Yours Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 19 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2004 Alex/Mike, Thanks for both yr answers. Unfortunatley I am not personally researching this man so I will have to defer to my mate who is, as he may know when the RN ballot took place. If I find out anything more I will post it here. Once again, thaks for yr answers. Sigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Saunders Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 I do find the whole VC ballot idea a very strange but very British way of going about rewarding or honouring men in battle. One of the masters at my old Prep School won the VC on a 'Q' ship in WW1. He was PO Ernest Pitcher, who won his medal on the Dunraven. The whole crew of the ship were as brave as the two winners of the VC but did not get a mention. Best wishes Nick Saunders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorts Posted 20 January , 2004 Share Posted 20 January , 2004 I think that the typed list shown refers only to RMLI and RMA as Leading Seaman McKenzie RN who was awarded a balloted VC is not on it. Ooops! Bit hasty there on my part! Well spotted eagle eyes - I only checked the names not the units they served with. On closer inspection it is obvious! Rgds, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 23 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2004 I believe the RM ballot list is held at the Corps Museum at Eastney. Do you have any ideas if the RN ballot list survived and where it is kept? Altenratively does anyone know what date the RN ballot was held? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 27 January , 2004 Share Posted 27 January , 2004 Hi, In response to the various VC ballot comments, I can confirm that AB Alfred Taylor SS4751 (Ch) died of wounds received at Zeebrugge. He appears to have been on HMS Vindictive and he is listed on the RN ballot list. However, he was not one of those selected to receive the VC. While details of the RM ballot are well documented, I have so far failed to come across details of the RN ballot. The notation on a man's service record that he participated in the ballot does not necessarily mean he actually voted, as there are a few instances of it appearing on the records of a man who was killed. I believe the intention was to annotate ALL records of those who formed part of the storming parties and the crews of the Vindictive, Daffodil and Iris, but sadly this does not seem to have always happened. Many participants just have "Took part in the attack on Zeebrugge 22/23 April 1918" in the remarks column. In fact, there are a few instances of men having this on their records who were forced to pull out a few days earlier due to injury or illness and never actually went!! I am hoping to write a book about those who took part in the Zeebrugge Raid and have amassed a huge amount of info. If anyone has any further queries I'd be happy to try and help. Equally, any biographical info/photos you may have are always most welcome. Plus, of course, any details of the RN ballot would be great to discover. I have written an article on the irregularities surrounding the RM ballot and would be happy to email it to anyone who's interested. It's a most fascinating subject!! Best regards, Dominic Walsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 27 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2004 Dominic - many thanks for yr informative reply. I look forward to eventual publication of yr book on the Zeebrugge Raid ... so no slacking! Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 27 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2004 Dominic ... I have also emailed you regarding Alfred Taylor via the Forum member page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 3 February , 2004 Share Posted 3 February , 2004 Further to the RN VC ballot issue, here is something I found on the internet which is said to have been produced at the service of dedication for the unveiling of a memorial to Captain Carpenter VC: "Carpenter, as senior surviving Officer, was asked to make recommendations for conspicuous gallantry, but he replied that he felt if would be invidious to select individuals where everyone had acted so splendidly, nor would he take part in any ballot which was arranged for an Officer and a Rating for the V.C. in accordance with the Rules. In this ballot, Carpenter received one more vote than Commander (Sir) Harold Campbell, and was thus awarded the Cross. He was immediately confirmed in his promotion to Captain, and was later awarded the Croix De Guerre with Palm and made an Officer of the Legion of Honour." Regards to all, Dominic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 26 February , 2004 Share Posted 26 February , 2004 Dominic, Whilst researching men of my town in the local newspaper, I have recently found a short article concerning a marine who was involved in the Zeebrugge Raid. The article says: "ORMSKIRK MARINE IN THE ZEEBRUGGE RAID Amongst the men missing in the Naval raid off Zeebrugge is Ptet S. M. Hopson, of the Royal Marine Battalion, elder son of Mrs Hopson and the late Mr Geo. Hopson, who it is believed was one of the landing party, is a prisoner of war in Germany. He joined the marines shortly before the war." Is there a roll of men who took part in the raid? How can I find out more about him and his involvement in this incident? Thanks for any suggestions. Regards, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 26 February , 2004 Share Posted 26 February , 2004 Hi Ken, I'll look up your man from Ormskirk and see what I can find. But to get what you really need you'd probably have to get his service record out at the Public Record Office. Regards, Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 13 July , 2004 Share Posted 13 July , 2004 Hi, Wondered if anyone has ever seen photos of Motor Launch ML282, whose skipper, Percy Deane, won the VC at Zeebrugge in 1918. In particular, I'm trying to research one of his RNR deckhands, DA16116 Albert Ernest Brooks, who won the DSM for his part in the raid. Any help/clues would be gratefully received. Regards, Dominic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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