Terry Denham Posted 16 January , 2004 Share Posted 16 January , 2004 Some Pals may have heard the the UK government has begun a consultation process to discuss the possibility of re-using graves after a certain period. This is obviously important in the light of the scarcity of land in some areas. To squash any concerns or fears that anyone has over the possible re-use of the 170,000 war graves in the UK, their position has already been safeguarded. It has already been acknowledged by the government that no Commonwealth War Grave in the UK, whether CWGC or privately owned, will be permitted to be re-used. This has been confirmed by CWGC today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R Posted 16 January , 2004 Share Posted 16 January , 2004 Reassuring. I have real concerns about this in general though - will human remains be subject to any form of examination prior to re-burial with headstone? Will they in fact be archaeologically excavated? I suspect not, it could take an inordinate amount of time and money. Will headstones be recorded? This is a good opportunity to understand past human lives, I hope it is not squandered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 16 January , 2004 Share Posted 16 January , 2004 This is a good opportunity to understand past human lives, I hope it is not squandered. Without getting too political, if our government has anything to do with it then it will be squandered It is good news that the CWGC graves will be left alone. I do hope that the details of the headstones are recorded, I've seen some 'civvy' headstones which include detailed info about relatives lost in WWI and it would be a crime to lose this info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 16 January , 2004 Share Posted 16 January , 2004 I have wondered what information the Portuguese have, headstones at cemetery at La Bombe are unreadable to nearly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_McGarry Posted 17 January , 2004 Share Posted 17 January , 2004 I think the whole idea of digging up the dead after 100 years stinks... Simon R thinks it would be a "good opportunity to understand past human lives"... Well simon how would you feel if we started with a relative of yours (great great grandad perhaps) Doesn't sound such a good idea now does it... There is a saying...it may be an old saying but for me its still valid... RIP... That goes for civvies as well at soldiers.. (call me old fashioned) ... I will have my coffin booby trapped and take some of the ******* with me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 January , 2004 Share Posted 17 January , 2004 In my local church cemetery a CWGC grave to a young soldier stands next to the grave of his mother and father. Should we sweep away one of these graves and keep the other ? What gives us the right to propose doing this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 17 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2004 There is no point getting hot under the collar about this unless you do something about it. The government knows it is an emotive subject and so the Home Office is asking for opinions. So give them what they are asking for! Otherwise it will happen. Write to... Home Office Coronors' Section 5th Floor Allington Towers 19 Allington Street London SW1E 5EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 17 January , 2004 Share Posted 17 January , 2004 when my grandad purchased his grave plot in witton cemetry birmingham, it was forever that is what is written on the reciept, so how can someone change that whenever they feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen White Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 this stinks,who ever came up with this one needs shooting !!.my grandparents are both buried in Witton also.damn glad that neither are alive to hear this.NO ONE will touch their graves. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Didn't say I agreed with it. If it were done, best it were done well. Being patronising about it 'doesn't sound such a good idea now does it?' doesn't get you anywhere and more importantly gets right up my nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_McGarry Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 It sounded to me like you were very much in favour as long as your 3 provisos were met... "will human remains be subject to any form of examination prior to re-burial with headstone?" "Will they in fact be archaeologically excavated?" "This is a good opportunity to understand past human lives, I hope it is not squandered." Sorry ... but I can't think of any way this can be "done well..." even if Great granddad is "subject to examination", "archaeologically excavated" or its "a good opportunity to understand past human lives" If I sounded patronising to you its because you sounded insensitive to me... we all need to think hard about the implications of this if it were to become law... its not just human remains its human remains over 100 years old which means you could find great grandad turfed out of his last resting place.. Rest in peace should mean just that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen White Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 The government knows it is an emotive subject and so the Home Office is asking for opinions. So give them what they are asking for! Otherwise it will happen. Write to... Home Office Coronors' Section 5th Floor Allington Towers 19 Allington Street London SW1E 5EB i most certainly will be,it should not be allowed to happen,so come on everyone get writing !!. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Apart from lobbying the Government, perhaps some of the forum members can suggest a practical solution. Many people are not too concerned with what actually happens to their human remains after death, which is probably just as well, as without the popularity of cremation, we would have been facing this problem some time ago. At sometime in the future, after most of us here today have died, there will be NO new land left for burials - it's fairly obvious that a small, highly populated country such as ours will not be able to continue burial practice as we know it. And I would guess that when the crunch comes, and it will be a big crunch, war graves will not be able to have any more protection than any other. So to protect existing graves, someone has got to come up with an innovative idea or two to solve the problem. It might be burial plots four or five deep - or large multi-story car park like repositories - burial at sea - it may sound a bit bizarre, but the day will come. It's an emotive subject, but emotion alone won't actually help find the answer to a possible future nightmare. Regards - Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 The Jewish cemetary in Prague is an example of what may happen here. The Jews in the city were not allowed to bury their dead outside of their district. Consequently the cemetery now has as many as twelve layers of burials. I think that this proposal is really only at the "maybe thinking about it stage". The government rolled out some very low level mouthpiece on radio 4 on Friday and she said that there would be absolutely no removal of remains without consent being given. The way that the Blair regime works however, they probably mean that as long as the corpse doesn't complain then it will be moved. Tough on death and tough on the causes of death. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kemp Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Well Sue, you changed the discussion well, its ok having the opinion that the graves should not be dug up, but what is the alternative, that is the question. In Hong Kong, I am told that the dead are buried standing up !!!!! Some leases of plots in the uk only last 50 years. The cost of plots is rising all the time and soon, with the lack of space, people will not be able to afford to pay for the plots and subject to religion, I think more and more people will opt for "Cremation" due to cost alone. This debate will go on and on and is very sensitive, hence the governments will put it off taking any action until the last minute. At some time in history, maybe no so far away when WW1 is not so much a popular topic, the powers to be in France, Belgium etc will give in to Commercialism and roads etc will make way for those places we all love to visit. JMK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 Burial at sea is indeed, as Sue says, an option. Currently it is hedged around with so many legal requirements as to deter all but the most enthusiastic for this form of burial. Personally, I quite like the idea of being tossed over the side; I'm a great enjoyer of fish and chips you see, and I'd be perfectly happy to enter the aquatic food chain as a payback. Since I live so far from the sea, my wish may be impractical. I could make my own way there, if they threw me in the river, then again I might get caught up in a shopping trolley or an old motorbike. I'll probably end up being cremated, but only the bits the medical profession don't want. However, returning to a theme addressed in my first paragraph, no-one seems to mind much about animals being herded-off to the slaughterhouse for food consumption, and as an occasional meat-eater and cat owner, I am as culpable as the next person. If the companion animals that have loved me are willing, they and their less-fortunate friends are welcome to a last supper - with me as piece-de-resistance. Meanwhile, back at the topic - War graves are sacrosanct. The headstones and memorials to the war dead tell successive generations of the true cost of war. In a world where new graves will become increasingly scarce, they will speak ever more eloquently of duty, loyalty, friendship and loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 ... no-one seems to mind much about animals being herded-off to the slaughterhouse for food consumption ... Quite a lot of people mind very much about that. You can be buried in your own garden but there are obvious problems later when selling the property. Or you can be buried in woodland or pasture. Uncle Alfred, a noted dissecter in his day, closed the loop by donating himself to science. Cremating must be the answer though, and a good excuse for a nice garden too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 Clive, I do mind very much about animal slaughter, and I mind even more about the lives they lead. Additionally, it does seem inconsistent to me that in this throwaway society of ours, house-hunters should get twitchy about there being decent organic matter enriching the back garden, be it flesh and bones or ashes. Since we came to this house sixteen years ago we have buried six cats in the garden, and there must be, indeed are, others buried there too. I am a great advocate of recycling, which is why I too favour medical research and, if no oher uses are forthcoming, composting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 Kate a few years ago I started having cats cremated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 I just think that if we're going to start shifting human remains then we'd better do it in such a way that actually benefits and reaffirms humanity. This involves certain practicalities that enhance our intellectual understanding of the world around us viz a viz archaeological techniques. I do not think it insensitive to suggest that we actually take an interest in the mortal remains of people if and when we come across them. For example - bodies of soldiers found on the Western Front. I would much rather see putative great grandad in 1/4th DWR (or whatever) treated with respect through considered excavation rather than scooped up in a JCB bucket. Like it or not, and I'm not saying I revel in human remains, modern society will come across dead people in it's day to day existence (building motorways through Pilckem Ridge etc, etc). How we choose to deal with them is surely a mark of our sensitivity to humanity and a measure of the respect we think we might like to recieve if it was us recumbent in a trench. Oh yes, anyone fancy being turned into a diamond after they've shuffled off? Saw it on the news the other day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_McGarry Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 I quite like the idea of being dropped in a hole and a tree planted on top... Creating new woodland as a by product, perhaps the tree could have a small plaque at the base?... and a book of remembrance at the entrance.... I wouldn't even mind if in a thousand years some archaeological dig uncovered me and marvelled at my fillings an bridge work... But I don't like the idea of being buried to RIP "for a limited period only " see details on box... Also not quite sure what rabbits and cats have to do with it !!! I tried burying the daughters rabbit in the garden once...so I hunted around for a likely spot... I dug deep.... and eventually .....I dug up the previous house owners cat/or dog... couldn't tell by the clumps of fluff exactly what it was The binmen now take care of all my small pet funeral arrangements ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_McGarry Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 "Additionally, it does seem inconsistent to me that in this throwaway society of ours, house-hunters should get twitchy about there being decent organic matter enriching the back garden, be it flesh and bones or ashes." Its the six foot marble statue of a weeping madonna that tends to make them twitchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 Steve There do woodland burials in my local cemetery now, lovely tree planted as per next of kins wishes and a small brass plaque at the base. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now