Understanding Conscription

[grass1]

This is my first post so hello to all.

My name is Tony and I have recently taken my 13 year old son Philip (who has always had an interest in World War One) on a tour of the Western Front battlefields. We found the whole experience extremely moving.

The trip has inspired Philip and I to try and discover more of what part my Grandfather played.

We would like to begin by understanding the conscription process. What was involved, how long before sent into action, any information to help us understand would be welcome.

For interest:

My Grandfather's name was Frederick Spriggs .

He was born on 29th September 1898 and lived in Stilton in Cambridgeshire.

He was a Private in the 2/7 Manchester Regiment and his number was 54486.

I have discovered from the national archives that he had the British medal and the Victory medal. I understand this means he served abroad and saw action ? (is that correct?). The refernce on his medal card is H/1/104 B/25

The only other details I have are inside his New Testament (YMCA) and his Active Service Testament 1918 (which are amongst my son's most treasured possessions!)

Inside the New testament (YMCA) he has written his name and address on the inside front cover . On the inside of the back cover he has written his name, number, regiment and the date October 30th 1917. It is written on a Y.M.C.A. war roll form stuck inside the cover

Inside the Active Service Testament he has written the same information but without his regiment details and with a date of September 22nd 1918. Also he has written inside ... B bay , No4. Convalescent Depot, AP&I , Le, Havre . B.E.Force

My Grandfather moved to the USA when my Aunt married an American Airman after World War Two.

Thanks for any help anyone might be able to give.

Regards,

Tony and Philip.

[Max Poilu]

Hello Tony and son, welcome to the forum.

Subscription began in January 1916 (for single men).

 

Regarding his service there are plenty of Manchester experts on here - I am sure you will have lots of info very shortly...

[elaine s.]

Welcome to the forum Tony and son. I have only been a member since July but am finding it in- valuable. I really recommend that you both visit the Imperial War Museum if you have not already done so together with the relevant military museum for the soldier you are researching. Try dipping into WW1 histories by Malcolm Brown. All very readable and you will pick up lots of information on conscription as you go. What a brilliant father/son hobby! Kind regards, Elaine

[sotonmate]

54486g'son

We will resurrect this because you were on someone else's thread. Finding an ORs service record is not as easy as finding an Officer's,there is the not so small matter of them being bombed and burned in 1940,with the loss of over 70%. So your GDad's might not be around any more. Some records are on Ancestry UK but I don't think they have reached S yet. I did look just now and there were no hits on anyone with the surname Spriggs. The other way of searching is on the microfilms of those that survived 1940,they are at Kew under the series WO363,so that would have to be done on site there. I will see what I can do to find out if his record survives. If it is there it will be in WO363/S1843,or in the WO363/MIS-SORTS,but unlikely.

I saw his Medal Index Card and it tells me that he went into a War Theatre after 1915,but I have no way of knowing when at this stage. There are some here with a good knowledge of the numbers issued to the Manchesters so you might get an approximate date of enlistment from the number,but it won't help much with entry into a war zone.

You might be lucky bringing this up again. Don't give up yet !

We can find the Battalion War Diary so that you could read about his activity,but it would be more effective if you had dates from which he was there. WO95/3145 is what you want. This is for the 2/7 Manchesters when they were in 66 Division and runs from Mar 1917 to Jul 1918. There is also an earlier part on the same number which runs from Sep 1915 to Feb 1916. There is a gap between Feb 1916 and Mar 1917,but you may not need that anyway,if the date in your Gdad's Bible is in fact when he first entered the War. The other date at the back of the Bible sounds to me like he was in Hospital in 1918. Do you know if he was discharged to Pension,as there are other records to search if that was the case.

Sotonmate

[sotonmate]

54486,

More digging to find that the 2/7 Manchesters were part of 199 Brigade of 66 Division, which landed in France for the first time in Feb 1917,so it is possible that is when your Gdad got there too. See this page from the Long Long Trail at top left of this page:

http://www.1914-1918.net/66div.htm

you will see the make-up of the full Division and each of the three Brigades. 199 Brigade also had the 2/5,2/6 and 2/8 Battalions of the Manchesters. It looks to me like they had a busy time of it,also losing a lot of troops and being reduced to cadre strength in April 1918. I wonder if he was wounded around that time.

Sotonmate

[grass1]

Hello sotonmate,

Many thanks for your continued interest.

I'm afraid I do not know if my Grandfather was dischrged with a pension.

With regard to when he went overseas .... How strict was the not going until 19 years old rule applied? He would have been 19 years and 1 month old on 30th October (the date in his new testament) I wonder if he went then or got the new testament from a YMCA hut when already overseas?

In his book 'The Seventh Manchesters' Captain S.J. Wilson M.C. explains that after Cadre what was left of the 2/7 joined 1/7 in the 42nd Division around 3rd August. The book can be downloaded free here http://www.archive.org/details/sevenmanchester00wilsuoft

Sorry to be a pain but could I ask about casualty lists ie are there likely to be any that I could check?

In his Active Service Testament he has written:

B Coy ,

No4. Convalescent Depot,

AP&I ,

Le, Havre .

B.E.Force

Any idea what the AP&I might stand for?

[PhilB]

The Times printed almost daily long lists of wounded (&killed) arranged by regiment. It wouldn`t be easy as you don`t know quite when to look but he`ll be in there somewhere!

[Stebie9173]

September 1918 is too late for the Times. The Official Casualty lists for the period mid-1917 to 1919 are on Microfilm at the British Newspaper Library at Colindale (whilst the Colindale section survives anyway).

Local newspapers might be a better first port of call, if you are local.

Steve.

P.S. Just noticed. 5 minutes up the road from me. They would be in MY local paper.....

[sotonmate]

54486

I looked in the microfilms for your man. The spool number for his surname is WO363/S1843 and,whilst there were five with the name SPRIGGS,none of them matched his details. I had no time left to look in the WO364 Pension spools,he might be there if he was discharged to pension,otherwise you can only wait until all records are on Ancestry UK,in the hope that some papers were mis-sorted on the spools and will eventually be put in precise alphabetical order when they are digitised. I know that there are still entries out of order because I come across them every now and then.

Sotonmate

[grass1]

Many thanks for doing that for me Sotonmate.

I was saving for a trip to Kew myself but now will wait for the S,s on ancestry.