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Mountain batteries at Anzac

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kevinrowlinson

Hi Scott,

You could send a personal message (PM) to Mike Morrison, who posted above, who has researched these units. You haven't given his service number, which given how many John Macleods served with the 4th High. Mtn Bde would be necessary to really start your research. I am assuming you may mean 4360/301422 John Macleod who received the DCM and MID. His MIC indicates that he later became an officer which may mean his records have survived but a visit to the Nat. Archives would be necessary. This John Macleod was living at 4A Garenin, Carloway, Stornoway

LG for DCM http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30624/supplements/4412

LG for MID http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30746/supplements/7051

Kevin

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CSMMo

Is there a chance that he was also known as "Toodles"? In my research of the Ross (And Bute and Argyll) Battery there are quite a few John Macleods. My information is that the John Macleod known as Toodles was from 4 Garenin, Lewis. There's a lot known about him. If he's the right man, I can point you in the right direction(s). Toodles won the DCM was MID and commissioned.

If your Macleod is someone else, I still would like to know as I am researching his battery and Brigade.

Mike Morrison

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Phil Eyden

I have recently come across these two photos of an artillery piece at Gallipoli, clearly smashed and buckled. It almost certainly dates from the attack by ANZAC troops on the 4th August as four other photos came with it that can be dated to the aftermath. Can the gun be identified? I don't think it is a 10 pounder and wondered if it was Turkish, yet some of the debris in the trench has British writing on it. Thank you. 

IMG_0014a - Copy.jpg

IMG_0015a - Copy.jpg

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Jeff Pickerd

Phil,

The gun is an English QF 18 Pounder, the type used by the Australian Field Artillery. A search of the Australian Artillery War Diaries for August1915 should be adle to identify which Battery the gun belonged to, the gun position at Anzac,and the circumstances of the damage inflicted to the gun.

 

Jeff

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alantwo
6 hours ago, Jeff Pickerd said:

Phil,

The gun is an English QF 18 Pounder, the type used by the Australian Field Artillery. A search of the Australian Artillery War Diaries for August1915 should be adle to identify which Battery the gun belonged to, the gun position at Anzac,and the circumstances of the damage inflicted to the gun.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff and Phil

 

Using the term 'Hit' I did a quick search of the various War Diaries and came up with the following references which may be of interest. A smashed wheel is mentioned by 4th Battery AFA but it's on 5th Jul and may not be relevant. Hope it helps. Apologies in advance for any mis-interpretation of the handwriting in the diaries.

 

Alan

 

2nd Battery AFA

15th May 1915

One of our guns was hit by a 4 inch shell from the enemy & put out of action permanently no casualties to personnel occurred.

5th Jul 1915

Hit but no damage done.

4th Battery AFA

29th May 1915

 

5.40am No.3 gun out of action (head cover hit).

7.35am No.3 again hit with HE.

30th May 1915

No.1 gun received direct hit with HE. Gun damaged.

5th Jul 1915

A sub gun hit with a 6" shell. Smashed off wheeled & bent axle & few small fitting. Also damaged shield.

5th Battery AFA

1st May 1915

Gun shield of 'A' subsection penetrated by direct hit

21st May 1915

Brought fire of Battery to bear. One gun was dragged out quickly, the other received a direct hit.

6th Aug 1915

4th Battery gun later when firing received a direct hit which killed the No.1 & layer.

6th Battery AFA

1st Aug 1915

a Turkish shell hit No.4 ('D' subsection) gun smashing through the shield & tearing off the range gear also (?) the slide & spring case. One man (JOHNSON) was killed outright the case of the shell hitting him on the head. The gun was sent to Ordnance at the Base for repairs which should be completed in a few days.

7th Battery AFA

3rd May 1915

In the morning & afternoon we were again shelled & although they landed one percussion in the parapet of No.1 gun no one was hit.

8th May 1915

Our No.2 gun was hit direct & put out of action.

12th May 1915

The enemy guns  replied putting No.2 gun Hughes Battery out of action by a direct hit on shield.

16th Jun 1915

Battery on GUN RIDGE was engaged by No.2 gun which after firing (?) rounds was put out of action by a direct hit on right side of shield damaging spring case of cradle & carrying away ranging gear & No.2's seat.

9th Aug 1915

0915 No.1 gun received direct hit on shield but gun uninjured.

21st Aug 1915

2 guns on GUN RIDGE replied & put No.2 gun out of action by a direct hit

19th Nov 1915

Enemy's gun firing from direction of SCRUBBY KNOLL square 80 Z2 engaged our No.3 gun & succeeded in obtaining a direct hit before the gun could be withdrawn damaging shield, spring case & locking bar sights. The gun was withdrawn for repairs & a dummy gun substituted at dusk.

20th Nov 1915

1430 Enemy's gun firing from direction of SCRUBBY KNOLL opened fire on dummy gun in No.3 pit obtaining direct hit thereon.

8th Battery AFA

10th May 1915

I was unable to fire longer as the enemy had my range and put a direct hit on my shield & lodged 3 shells in the gun pit we were particularly fortunate in not having any casualties (dial sight was shot away).

19th Jun 1915

A direct hit on No.2 gun pit our strong parapet saved our gun.

17th Jul 1915

Several hits on parapet and direct hit on No.1 gun shield.

9th Battery AFA

14th Jun 1915

5.40am Six guns from GUN RIDGE shelling 7th, 8th, 9th & Mountain Battery & Infantry trenches, range 2200, firing battery salvoes, knocking parapets about & getting direct hits on 1 gun of 7th & 8th Batteries.

 

 

 

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Phil Eyden

I just wanted to thank Jeff and Alan for their most interesting replies and thank them for taking the time to look into this for me. It is possible that these photos were taken in July and could be the gun mentioned in the War Diary. I, possibly unwisely, assumed the date from the other four photos, three of which I have managed to date to the August offensive. I am sure I have read that the only guns that supported the ANZACs were two Indian Mountain Batteries so I was not expecting to see an 18pdr. Back to the books! 

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alantwo
18 hours ago, Phil Eyden said:

I just wanted to thank Jeff and Alan for their most interesting replies and thank them for taking the time to look into this for me. It is possible that these photos were taken in July and could be the gun mentioned in the War Diary. I, possibly unwisely, assumed the date from the other four photos, three of which I have managed to date to the August offensive. I am sure I have read that the only guns that supported the ANZACs were two Indian Mountain Batteries so I was not expecting to see an 18pdr. Back to the books! 

 

Phil

 

I thought the attached gun pit layout from the end of June 1915, may be of interest.

 

Alan

Gun Pit No2 Gun 4th Battery AFA.jpg

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Phil Eyden

That is amazing Alan - you have it. That's identical to what I have in my photo, thank you so much. I see the adjusting wheels have been bent out of position too as when as the carriage wheel smashed. It must have been a hit just a yard or two away. Incredible. 

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Jeff Pickerd

Phil, just to follow up on your photograph, and Alan, thanks for your leads to the war diaries.

 

From the AWM web-site another photograph of the damaged gun is found (photograph ID - PO1251005). The gun is identified as belonging to the Western Australian 8th Battery, Australian Field Artillery, 3rd Field Artillery Brigade, under the command of Major Bessel -Browne. The AWM date the photograph to June 1915, and identify the photographer as Horace Warner Lynch. The description states “Damage from Turkish 8 inch Howitzer shell.” This description is an under statement, the damage to the gun is far greater, the gun shield is shot away, as is the gun sights, as well as the damage you have noted.

The 8th Battery War Diary gives  the date to gun damage as dated 20th June. Entry reads “ No. 1 near gun wheel was shot away.”

There is another photograph (ID - CO3389) which looks very much like the same gun position, and it is an 8th Battery gun.

A search of the Australian Official History, Volume 2, page 343, relates the Turkish shell fire from the 8 inch Howitzer from behind Scrubby Knoll firing 20 shells onto the Pimple, this is the site of the No 1 gun pit.

there is another photograph of the same damaged gun, taken from a slightly different angle at the AWM. The damage to the gun and scattered bits and pieces is identical to the other two photographs. The trouble is I can no longer find the image on the AWM’s hopeless  search system, it is there somewhere, but just where is beyond me.

 

Hope this puts an end to our usurping of the original topic

 

Jeff 

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alantwo

Jeff

 

I hope I am permitted one more comment, just to say thanks for your invaluable expertise not just on this subject but on this forum in general. Great stuff. Clearly if I had used the search term 'shot away' rather than 'hit' I might have found it. Presumably the photograph can also now be given a precise date as the War Diary goes on to say that the damaged wheel was replaced the next morning. It must have been taken on the afternoon/evening (ish) of the 20th June.

 

Kind regards

Alan

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