'Incredible staff efforts'

[Desmond7]

Insights welcomed:-

Prior and Wilson's Somme - section on Scwhaben Redoubt.

They talk of the 'incredible staff efforts' by the 36th staff in attempting to feed 49th Div into battle even on the 3rd day.

Realise there were problems in comm trenches/communications generally etc. but even with these problems, surely it should have ben obvious by the 3rd day that no amount of staff work or, indeed, bravery, was going to make a pin of difference in this sector.

Do Prior and Wilson mean that the staff efforts were 'incredible' in the literal sense ... i.e. unbelievable/misguided in the cirumstances .. or do they really mean that the 36th staff work was aboive and beyond?

Thoughts please ... m,aybe I am reading too much into this little phrase but it has raised suspicions in my mind that the co-operation with 49th Div was not all it could have been. If so, where does blame lie, if there is any!

[Chris Noble]

Hi Des.

Very interesting.

A couple of points Des and i will quote 'Saturday Soldiers' by Malcolm K. Johnson;

1/7/16.

" At 9.00am Major General Perceval was at 36th Division H.Q. when news of of the success of the leading Brigades arrived, and he suggested to Nugent that the whole of the 49th Division be used to exploit this success. To obtain Corps Commanders approval Perceval set off to Engelbelmer, but on arrival discovered that Lt. Gen. Sir T.L.N. Morland, G.O.C. X Corps, had already disposed of part of 49th Division. At 8-55 am 146th Brigade had been ordered to move into Thiepval Wood from where it was to advance to support either the right of the 36th Division, or the left of the 32nd, whichever was in most need. At 10-55 am another of perceval's Brigades, the 147th was ordered to cross the Ancre to replace the 32nd Division's Reserve Brigade in dugouts south west of Authuille Wood. Both opereations were completed before 1-00pm."

Saturday Soldiers adds this Des;

'Mil Ops 1916, Vol. 1 page 408, refering to the despatch of the 146th Brigade, uses the words 'as required' giving no indication as to which of the two Divisional Commanders was to decide who had the greater need. In 'Look to your Front', Brian Bond et al, Spellmount, 1999, page 8, Ian Beckett, writing on 'Gough, Malcolm and Command on the Western Front' quoptes Brig-Gen Neil Malcolm complaining in his diary, July 1916, that there 'was too much tendency not to command units'. With particular reference to Morland's X Corps Malcolm wrote 'There is still this wretched idea of command being interference which we must abolish'. Morland cannot be accused of not interfering on this occasion having sent orders directly to a Brigade without first contacting the Divisional Commander. 147th Brigade had almost no casualties taking over from 14th Brigade, but 146th Brigade were badly mauled by machine-guns firing from Hamel as it crossed the north and south causeways over the Ancre.'

As you can see Des, from the 'offing', the Division was split anyhow.

Just to add Des. On the 5th July, the 1/5th KOYLI were engaged in an attack to seize more of the German "A" System. Unfortunately, the attack did not succeed.

If you need any more details Des as regards 49th Division and post 1/7/16, drop me a line mate.

Regards,

Chris.

[Desmond7]

Thanks Chris - by any chance do you remember or know of a recently published book based on the diary of a General ??? ... I saw it in Waterstone's recently and he made a disparaging comment on the 'lack of discipline' by the Ulster Division on 1st July.

I realise the man was writing at a time when the exact nature of their action was pretty much still in fog of battle.

Ring any bells?

[armourersergeant]

Des,

I would read that as them meaning that the staff made credable efforts to re-inforce the attack under difficult conditions. I am inclined to think that Prior and Wilson would not be so ambiguious when attempting to be critica! Its not in their style.

regards

Arm

[Desmond7]

 

Got it!

[Chris Noble]

Hi Des.

I know i am 'jumping the gun' here a bit.

But as regards the 49th Division, the most criticism, as far as i am aware, came after the failed attacks on the 3rd September more so.

As regards 1/7/16 Des, refer to my original post.

My local War Memorial reflects the commitment of a number of the 49th men in the attack on Feste Schwaben 1/7/16.

Kindest regards Snake.

Chris.