1959boy Posted 19 September , 2007 Share Posted 19 September , 2007 Hi All: Firstly, many thanks to all those who have helped me with tracing my family members, so I will know what to look for at the NA. Now, thanks to you all, I've downloaded his records, but still need some help in the difficult job of understanding them!!. While other threads have been of great help, some of the jargon used is a bit beyond me. The specific questions I have are....... 1. The name RENARD, is shown in brackets, would there be a reason for this??. 2. What was "P 19", as I cant seem to find it listed, or was it a patrol craft??. 3. Does the notation on the same line as RENARD mean he had 21 days detention??. 4. Was it unusual for someone with his length of service not to have had ANY badges?. 5. In the ratings column, is it "Watchkeeper", or something similar?. 6. When attached to PEKIN, under "List", it looks like it says, "12 RNK", with a small 10 above it, any ideas to what this means??. 7. The final entry says, "Invalided", would the reason for this be shown somewhere??. And if anyone comes up with anything else that they can glean from his records, I would appreciate it. GD_mills_service_record_mk3.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esskay Posted 19 September , 2007 Share Posted 19 September , 2007 Hi Andy Searching NA can sometimes do weird things - could this be him Name Mills, Harold Hamerton Official Number: J28186 Place of Birth: West Ham, Essex Date 12 June 1898 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...;resultcount=11 These RN records are great - we found my husband's grandad's record of service - he was from just up the road in Barking Cheers Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 19 September , 2007 Share Posted 19 September , 2007 In addition to his service record at Kew, the enlistment papers for J.28186 are held at the Fleet Air Arm Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 19 September , 2007 Share Posted 19 September , 2007 He joined in 1914 in his 16th year and probably went to sea in that year. His medals will be listed on the offline medal roll in ADM 171, but he probably earned a 1914/15 Star trio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959boy Posted 20 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 September , 2007 Thank you so much to all 3 of you. This info is absolutely terrific, and will give me the boost I needed to get to grips with his past service. I also thank you on behalf of my Aunt, my Grandfathers last surviving child, who hasnt any of his service documents, or his medals, as they were all stolen in a break in just after he died. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959boy Posted 21 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2007 Hi All: If anyone can answer my questions above, that would be great, but I forgot to add one more. In "Character & Ability", it starts from 1916, is there any reason for this, or is it due to him being a "Boy" sailor before that date?. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 21 September , 2007 Share Posted 21 September , 2007 Andy, From joining up in 1913 he was classed as under training until reaching the age of 18 when he was made 'Ordinary Telegraphist' thats when he was assesed on his character and ability. He was discharged (Invalided) from the 'Mine Clearance Service' Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Andy, P 19 was a Patrol Boat; 613 tons, 2441-6" overall length, 20 knots, 1x4in, 1x2pdr, 2x14in torpedo tubes, launched 21/2/16. "name RENARD, is shown in brackets": I read this as Reserve. The Blenheim was a a depot ship and Mills was attached there as replacement crew for any of the craft attached to Blenheim. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959boy Posted 22 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Andy, P 19 was a Patrol Boat; 613 tons, 2441-6" overall length, 20 knots, 1x4in, 1x2pdr, 2x14in torpedo tubes, launched 21/2/16. "name RENARD, is shown in brackets": I read this as Reserve. The Blenheim was a a depot ship and Mills was attached there as replacement crew for any of the craft attached to Blenheim. Best wishes David Thank you David & Charles for your answers. David, where did you get the info on the P 19??. I would like to download a photo of the ship, or one of the same type of craft if thats possible?. Also, Charles. Can you tell me where it tells you about his discharge from the "Mine Clearance Service", as I cant seem to spot it on the record. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Andy, my info on P 19 came from British Warships 1914-1919 by Dittmar & J J Colledge. I refrained from trying to answer some of your other queries because of difficulty in reading the scan. I think it might help if you could scan the relevant parts to your queries and see if you can magnify them somewhat, then repost. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959boy Posted 22 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Andy, my info on P 19 came from British Warships 1914-1919 by Dittmar & J J Colledge. I refrained from trying to answer some of your other queries because of difficulty in reading the scan. I think it might help if you could scan the relevant parts to your queries and see if you can magnify them somewhat, then repost. Best wishes David Thanks David... As its in PDF format, will have to play around a bit to "blow up", the relevant sections, as I'm hopeless with PC's, but will repost asap. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Andy, I am sure some pal will be an expert on this sort of thing. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959boy Posted 22 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Hi All: I have blown up some of the sections of the service record. Hope they are clear enough now. P.S......If anyone does have a link, so I could download a picture of patrol boat P 19, or of the same type of ship as her, I would appreciate it. Or, if anyone has a photo on their PC, and wouldnt mind e-mailing it to me, that would be great. Andy GD_MILLS_service_record_questions.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Andy, Here is a Link to Janes Fighting ships 1919 Patrol Boats; http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/Janes_1919/P_...tc/P_Boats.html He engaged in the MCS (Mine Clearance Service) on the 1st April 1919, top left engagements. Yes he did serve 21 days Detention between 17/05/1918 and 08/06/1918. He was a Watchkeeper on small ships which brought added responsibility so an allowance of 6d. per diem to Ordinary Telegraphists, and of 3d. per diem to Boy Telegraphists, while regularly employed as Cabinet Watchkeepers in main or auxiliary wireless offices of His Majesty's Ships. HMS Blenheim was the depot ship in the Eastern Med and relieved HMS Zealandia in Mudros Jan 1916. HMS Renard was a destroyer of the Eastern Med Squadron looks like he served off Gallipoli. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959boy Posted 23 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 September , 2007 Many thanks for all your help Joseph. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 23 September , 2007 Share Posted 23 September , 2007 I have just noticed that your GF was attached to the MCS in 1919. In addition to his original enlistment documents (mentioned in my earlier post #3), the FAA Museum have a further eight ledgers with the papers of the men transferred to MCS in 1919, covering both men entered from shore and those serving who volunteered to be transferred, such as your GF. His papers should be in MCS Volume 7 - Seamen & Communications ratings J.1427 - J.92927. My defective vision can now make out that he was discharged invalided with "Def[ective] Vision". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959boy Posted 23 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 September , 2007 I have just noticed that your GF was attached to the MCS in 1919. In addition to his original enlistment documents (mentioned in my earlier post #3), the FAA Museum have a further eight ledgers with the papers of the men transferred to MCS in 1919, covering both men entered from shore and those serving who volunteered to be transferred, such as your GF. His papers should be in MCS Volume 7 - Seamen & Communications ratings J.1427 - J.92927. My defective vision can now make out that he was discharged invalided with "Def[ective] Vision". Brilliant Horatio!!! It seems obvious now, but the writing had me totally flumoxed. Cheers for the explanation on what is held at the FAA museum, (not very likely to get there anytime soon).. I know that this has probably been explained many times before, but can someone explain the significance of the notation in the "List" column of the record, a couple of examples attached. As far as I understand it, the "No" column is the number he was registered under while in his various ships or bases?. Andy Example_1.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 23 September , 2007 Share Posted 23 September , 2007 No mystery about List and Number - member 'Joseph' has described it:- Each ship had a ships book (Ledger) for pay and allowances this was divided into lists by department IE seamen, stokers etc. each man was given a number on his list. Known as his 'ships book number', he would have to quote this number when collecting his pay. No need to visit the FAA Museum. Call or e-mail and they will send you copies from the ledgers. A donation for their trouble would be gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959boy Posted 23 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 September , 2007 Many thanks for the efforts of "Horatio2", Charles, David, "Per Ardua", & Sue. I have sent my request off to the Fleet Air Arm museum, and will be following up all your great info when I get to visit the NA. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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