Fred W Posted 18 September , 2007 Share Posted 18 September , 2007 Does anyone know of a German Air Ace who was killed on 8th June 1916? Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 18 September , 2007 Share Posted 18 September , 2007 Fred Casualties of the German Air Service does not show anyone killed on that date nor any POWs or wounded - whats your source Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 19 September , 2007 Share Posted 19 September , 2007 I think that you will find that this is a minor error - it probably ought to be 18th June 1916, the day that Max Immelmann, the so-called Eagle of Lille, came down over Sallaumines, near to Vimy in mysterious circumstances. The Germans put out that he had been hit by their own flak, but it is more likely that he was brought down by a British FE2 machine (improbable though that may seem) or that he shot his own propellor off due to a synchronisation malfunction of his new experimental twin MG system. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 19 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 September , 2007 Hello Jack, I agree with you, I couldn't find a German air ace killed on 8th June 1916, the nearest was Max Immelmann. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 21 September , 2007 Share Posted 21 September , 2007 but it is more likely that he was brought down by a British FE2 machine (improbable though that may seem) or that he shot his own propellor off due to a synchronisation malfunction of his new experimental twin MG system. Why is it improbable that he was shot down by an FE2b? Early ones flown singly were ineffective, but once tactics had been worked out, this machine was one of those, along with the DH2 and Nieuport 11, responsible for neutralising the Fokkers. One of them even shot down von Richthofen the following year - non-fatally in that instance. Although Immelmann had flown the twin-gun Fokker EIV, at the time of his death he was flying a standard, single-gun EIII, number 246/16. Having said all that, his machine was seen to oscillate rapidly sideways before breaking up, which sounds like an aircraft being shaken to peices by an out-of-balance propeller, possibly damaged by an enemy bullet but more likely by a failed synchronising mechanism. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 21 September , 2007 Share Posted 21 September , 2007 Adrian You have rightly pointed out the risk if answers are too brief. I should have mentioned that I have a couple of eyewitness accounts about his last battle and a photo of his crashed aeroplane. Naturally there are variations, but the more compelling of the two describes that it was battle between three Fokkers and four FE2s. He describes one aircraft exploding in the air, with bits falling everywhere (he says he did not know which way to run to avoid them because the wings were floating down separately from the engine and fuselage). That cannot have been Immelmann, because the wings are still attached to his aircraft, which is more or less in one piece in the picture. He then describes an FE falling out of the fight with a Fokker right on its tail. He watches it forced right down onto the ground. By my arithmetic that did not leave much in the dogfight above - possibly two Fokkers v two FEs - hence my point about improbability. In another account a flak burst has Immelmann's aircraft split in two by the explosion. As I say the photo of the wreck does not bear this out so, although it remains shrouded in mystery, I still feel that shooting off the propellor is the most likely explnation. By the way, is the type of aircraft he was flying? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 21 September , 2007 Share Posted 21 September , 2007 Adrian Ignore much of that. I have just had a look and the photo I have is not his aircraft, but one which is alleged to be his last victim! I should still be interested to know about the photo. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Jack Yes, this is a Fokker E - probably an EIII (the most numerous), possibly a I or II, but not a IV which had a fatter front fuselage with partially shrouded twin guns. Often the Germans considerately stencilled the model number with the serial number on the lower side, but they don't seem to have done that here. At least one account I have of Immelman's crash does suggest that the wings seperated as the machine broke up. This is the account in his biography by his brother Franz, which is fascinating because at least two-thirds of the book is Max's own accounts in letters to his mother. Like all autobiogs and biographies by relatives, it should not be taken as gospel, but it gives a very good personal perspective. He comes across as a decent, normal bloke, interested in cars, motorbikes and dogs Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Adrian Many thanks for that. Armed with your assurance, I shall add it to the photos in my forthcoming Vimy book with much more confidence that the identification is correct. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Whilst German records show no killed or POW on the 8th June, French air service records do show one Fokker confirmed as shot down on this date by a French two seater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 What was left of Immelman's plane Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 German poscard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now