14th Division - Inverness Copse & Glencourse Wood

[jwp2007]

indeed a great post, my grandfather would have been there with w company 6th koyli,

many thanks,

john.

[snakebite]

Very interesting read my Grandfather Pte Arthur BYRON was killed on the 25 august he was with the 8 Btn KOYLI. If you could give me any more info on what was happening to the 8 Btn KOYLI on the 25 August it would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Chris.

[MBrockway]

Andy - a marvellous job of unravelling an extremely confusing action. I know from personal experience how hard it is to make proper sense of the events from the battalion war diaries, with the various incomplete reliefs and the battalions swapped between different brigades during the action. Nicely done!

Mark

[MBrockway]

Very interesting read my Grandfather Pte Arthur BYRON was killed on the 25 august he was with the 8 Btn KOYLI. If you could give me any more info on what was happening to the 8 Btn KOYLI on the 25 August it would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Chris.

8/KOYLI were in 23rd Division Chris, not 14th (Light) Division, so did not participate in the actions described in this Topic.

You're best off starting a new Topic with your specific queries.

Cheers,

Mark

[stiletto_33853]

Following requests over the period of time since I posted this and an ongoing project, I am going to carry this thread on, using articles on case studies of German Offensive and Defensive Operations on the Western Front conducted by Captain G. C. Whynne, who's book "If Germany Attacks" is well worth reading for it's examination of the development of the Germans tactical concept of defence in depth.

This comes from Whynne's article of the Army Quarterly of January 1935.

 

From the Nonne Bosschen Wood southward past Inverness Copse to the swamps of Dumbarton Lakes at the southern end of Henthage Park the line was held by the German 34th Division, each of it's three regiments, the 30th, 67th and 145th, being responsible for a 600 yards sector of the defence, but the brunt of the British attack on the 22nd of August was to come up against the 67th Regiment in the centre, holding Inverness Copse. The Regiment had its front battalion, the 2nd, in the Albrecht Line with two companies, the 5th and 6th, and a number of machine guns in concrete pill-boxes along the western edge of the copse and its two other companies in support in the main position.

Their orders were to hold this edge at all costs, as from the back of the copse the ridge began to fall away, so that its capture would have given the enemy excellent observation posts for a further advance. 

Its first battalion was in the Wilhelm Line, about 100 yards in the rear, and its third battalion was in reserve in the Flanders Line, 2000 yards behind again.

Throughout the night of the 21st Inverness Copse and its neighbourhood had been under a constant bombardment. At 6 a.m. the bombardment was so violent that the Germans stood to  expecting an attack at any moment. As the minutes passed without the appearance of the enemy, and knowing the British fondness for the first light of dawn as the hour of attack, the tension among the Germans relaxed. Shortly before 7 a.m.  however, the bombardment suddenly became terrific. A few minutes later the German sentries saw khaki figures moving forward through the cloud of smoke and mist, and then events moved rapidly.

 

The British Assault

 

The assault was carried out by the 43rd Brigade of the 14th Division, with two battalions in front, the 6th Somerset L. I. and the 6th Duke of Cornwall's L. I.  Their objective was the Albrecht position from Fitzclarence Farm southward past past Inverness Copse to Herenthage Chateau and thence forming a defensive flank back to the old front line, this flank additionally protected by the swamps of the Dumbarton Lakes. To cover the left of the advance the 42nd Brigade was to capture various strong points in Glencourse Wood and maintain touch with forward movement.

Before the Cornwalls had gone fifty yards their leading waves were swept by machine gun fire from Inverness Copse and checked. The Somersets on the right, however, entered the Copse with little loss and in a bitter struggle at close quarters with bayonets and hand grenades gradually forced back the German 5th company. The two German support companies, 7th & 8th, from the Albrecht Line at once hurried up to reinforce, but the 76th  on the left became entangled in the running fight with the Somersets and was unable to hold them. Soon after 8 a.m. the Somersets had reached Herenthage Chateau in the Albrecht Line , an advance of over 600 yards, after a short fight the ruins were captured and with it 60 prisoners. Although the two German companies, 5th & 7th, had been practically annihilated, the Somersets had also loss very heavily. They had reached their objective, but only a very thin line of some 90 men were there to hold it. 

The retreat of the 5th company had exposed the left flank of the 6th company north of the Menin Road, and the company commander had at once strengthened his flank with light machine guns. In consequence the Cornwalls, who as a result of their first check had lost touch with the barrage, that had moved forward a hundred yards every four minutes, were now completely held up. The attack remained at a standstill until a tank - the only one of the four detailed tp participate which succeeded in getting up the Menin Road - turned north at Inverness Copse and successfully attacked the strong posts holding them up. It then proceeded along the sector of trench north of the Copse, driving the Germans out of it with machine gun fire. The right supporting company, the 8th, from the Albrecht Line, now arrived to reinforce, but was helpless against the fire from the tank. A number of men rushed at it hurling a mass of bombs at its side, but these were only as pin pricks on the hide of a crocodile, and the Germans, losing heavily, had to fall back until an anti-tank gun which had been hurried up to the southern edge of Polygon Wood opened fire and forced it to retire. The Cornwalls, following the success up the success of the tank had been able to advance over 700 yards, but were still a long way from the Albrecht Line, their objective, thereby leaving the Somersets in a dangerous position.

 

 

 

 

 

[AOK4]

You forget to post the follow-up, the inevitable German counter attack that recaptured Herenthage Chateau by evening and put a British tank on the Menin Road out of action...

[stiletto_33853]

1st German Counter Attack

 

The German 67th Regiment's Headquarters in the Flanders Line received its first definite news of the progress of the attack by pigeon post at 9.15 a.m. and, by 10 a.m. the support battalion (the 1st) in the Wilhelm Trench was moving forward to reinforce the front line, with instructions to attack the enemy where met and to retake the front line position. Two  companies of the 3rd battalion in the Flanders Line were ordered forward to take its place in support in the Wilhelm Line. The 1st battalion found the remnants of the 2nd battalion in the Albrecht Trench and taking them forward began to attack the Somersets. The latter were now to weak and scattered to offer any serious resistance and had to fall back towards the western part of the Copse. The 10th Durham L. I.  was sent forward as reinforcement and together with the Somersets were able to hold a line about 250 yards from the western edge, southward of the Menin Road. Here they gained touch with the Cornwalls on their left and this line was successfully held. The Germans did not press their attack and frequent attempts by small parties to break through were stopped by machine gun fire. 

By the afternoon the German front line commander sent back to say that the line could no longer held unless reinforcements quickly arrived. The two companies of the 3rd battalion in the Wilhelm Line were therefore sent up and arrived in the copse about 5 p.m. The remainder of the 3rd battalion took their place in the Wilhelm Line, its position in reserve in the Flanders Line being taken by a battalion of the 177th Regiment.

Which counter attack, there we three of them, still working my way through Wynne's piece on it.

Please if you have more to add do not hesitate.

 

Andy 

[stiletto_33853]

Which counter attack, there were three of them, still working my way through Wynne. Please feel free to add anything you can, as stated it is an ongoing project.

 

Counter attack two and three to follow.

 

Andy

[AOK4]

South of the Menin Road, several counter attacks of IR 145 followed, supported by the Sturmkompagnie Gallinger of 34. ID, and recaptured the chateau and destroyed a British tank on the Menin Road, which was later used as a company commander's post. (I assume Wynne tells this as well in his article, I'm going too fast probably. Anyway, my information is a resumé of both sides from my book "Halfweg Menin Road en Ypernstrasse. Gheluvelt 1914-1918".)

[stiletto_33853]

2nd German Counter Attack

 

An order from the German 34th Division to retake the western edge of the copse arrived too late in the evening to carry out, and the attack was postponed until the following morning. During the night, starting at 2 a.m., the remainder of the 3rd battalion of the 177th Regiment advanced up to the front line in the copse, the battalion of the 177th Regiment moved up from the Flanders Line to the Wilhelm Line in support, and its place in the Flanders Line was taken over by a battalion of the 103rd Regiment. The attack was to be launched at 5.5 a.m. preceded by a five minute hurricane bombardment.

5 a.m. arrived. The companies lay ready to storm forward, but no artillery bombardment developed. It was discovered later the guns were awaiting the usual rocket signal to show the front line was ready, whereas the from line thought that the bombardment was to start automatically at 5 a.m. At 5.5. a.m. the infantry therefore attacked without any artillery preparation. In the close fighting which followed the Germans claimed to have advanced 200 yards and reached the western edge in places. Their attack however, coincided with a proposed British Tank attack. Five tanks were to have crossed No Man's Land at 4.30 a.m. to attack various strong points that were holding up and the infantry were to follow up their success. Only two tanks reached the front line and these, at about 6 a.m., turned north and south from the Menin Road along the German position. The latter fell an easy prey to them and with much bitterness of spirit the Germans were compelled to withdraw in face of machine gun fire from the tanks to their starting positions. Within half an hour the German Artillery had located the tanks and opened up on them. One was blown up by a direct hit, the Germans giving a loud hurrah as a dense cloud of smoke belched from it, and the other developed engine trouble, its crew of seven all being shot down as they attempted to escape. The Somersets had been relieved overnight by the 6th KOYLI and the Cornwalls by the 10th Durham L. I.  No further attempt was made to get forward during the morning, the British Artillery continued to bombard the Copse. To make good their losses the remainder of the German 67th Regiment was sent up from the Wilhelm Line to reinforce the battle position, and by dark, all three battalions of the 67th Regiment were in the front line.

At 10.45 p.m. orders were sent from the German 34th Division for another effort to take the western edge of the copse and park the following morning. At 1 a.m. under cover of darkness, three companies of the battalion of the  277th Regiment from the Flanders Line, a company of the 30th Regiment and the 4th Storm detachment ( 7 platoons each of about 10 men with hand grenades, revolvers and slung rifles trained for the assault ) with a contingent of flame throwers, moved up to the line of the 67th Regiment. The whole of the 34th Divisional Artillery, supported by batteries of the adjacent division, were to carry out the preparatory bombardment. At 6 a.m. the troops in the front line were to advance, going in with the storm troops as they came forward, leaving only two companies, each with four machine guns, in position as rallying points, one north and one south of the Menin Road. The artillery barrage was to lift 300 yards after an interval of five minutes and to be maintained for an hour to prevent the arrival of British reinforcements. Airmen were to fly along the British front line and rake it with machine guns to assist the attack. The regiments to the right and left, the 30th and 145th, were to co-operate on the flanks.

[AOK4]

12 minutes ago, stiletto_33853 said:

2nd German Counter Attack

 

 At 1 a.m. under cover of darkness, three companies of the battalion of the  277th Regiment from the Flanders Line, a company of the 30th Regiment and the 4th Storm detachment ( 7 platoons each of about 10 men with hand grenades, revolvers and slung rifles trained for the assault ) with a contingent of flame throwers, moved up to the line of the 67th Regiment.

 

That should be 177th Infantry Regiment, the stormtroopers were from Sturmbataillon 4 and the flamethrowers were from Garde-Reserve-Pionier-Regiment.

[stiletto_33853]

3rd German Counter Attack

 

At 5.30 a.m. a hurricane bombardment of great intensity opened on the British positions along the western edge of the copse, but it was short and the great mass of shell fell upon and behind the German position in the copse itself. It was too late to protest, and, at 6 a.m. the Germans, much discouraged, began to advance. Even the 300 yard lift did not carry the barrage did not carry the barrage as far as the British front line so that as the Germans approached they met a heavy fire and a stubborn resistance. In site of this they were able to gain the western edge in a number of places, particularly south of the Menin Road. At 7.30 a.m. the British counter attacked, but they were checked by the arrival by a further company of the 177th Regiment, which had come up to reinforce. As the shelling continued to fall short the German casualties rapidly increased. At 10.15 a.m. a message was sent back imploring the artillery to correct their range "Our artillery is falling short in the most incredible manner. If this bad shooting continues, we shall have to retire. No sign of warplanes to help our attack."

In spite of these remonstrances the German troops were still shelled by their own artillery and began to fall back from the western edge of the copse. The situation seemed critical.

The troops of the 43rd Brigade holding the front line were now very mixed up, and, in addition had been reinforced by the 9th Rifle Brigade, lent by the 42nd Brigade to assist. The Brigadier wished to deliver a counter attack through the copse, as he considered that the enemy would be in a most disorganised state after the failure of their attack, but, at mid-day, the commanding officers in the front line replied that they had not sufficient troops both to counter attack and to hold their present position in the event of a set back.

At this same hour the Germans were themselves preparing another attack. The 2nd battalion 177th Regiment had been sent forward to the Wilhelm Line to take the place of the 1st and it moved up about mid day to the Albrecht Line. Passing through this it was time to hold up the troops retreating through the copse. Soon afterwards, in spite of the terrific hail of shrapnel and high explosive, the whole line advanced once more through the copse, and by 12.40 p.m. the British troops were falling back to and beyond the western edge. The German success seemed for a time so considerable that the situation was reported by 43rd Brigade headquarters  to be "very grave" and further reinforcements were asked for from the neighbouring brigade. By 3 p.m. the news was more reassuring and it was found that the Germans had been definitely been held up along the western edge of the park and copse and that the British line was intact. An intention to counter attack with two fresh battalions from the supporting brigade did not materialise owing to the uncertainty of our dispositions in the front line, so that Inverness Copse remained in German possession that night.

During the night hours the German 177th Regiment took over the front line from the 67th, the remnants of which found their way back through the terrible shambles of the copse, leaving behind them over 650 casualties. The losses of the 177th Regiment did not exceed 250 at the outside according to its own statements, whereas the casualties of the British 43rd Brigade in these three days of fighting are given as over 1400.

 

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

16 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

 

That should be 177th Infantry Regiment, the stormtroopers were from Sturmbataillon 4 and the flamethrowers were from Garde-Reserve-Pionier-Regiment.

Thank you, typing error on my part, the text is 177th.

 

Andy

[MBrockway]

Great addition Andy!

 

The reprint of Wynne's If Germany Attacks mentioned higher up is available at £6.39 just now as part of Naval & Military's Easter Sale  That's less than half price!

 

See here

 

PS I cannot see a way of getting this deal through Amazon, so sadly no route available to get click-through income for the Forum

 

Mark

[stiletto_33853]

Ahhh the 1940 version.

 

This was a substantially diluted version, The publishers decided that it would be inappropriate to issue this volume as the text was highly critical of British Command and would lead to discouragement  and lack of confidence.

 

Tom made a limited run of 300 from the families retained original manuscript which Wynne used to make corrections to the aborted 1st Issue and make amendments for any further editions including Wynne's notes for a revised edition.

 

I gather 4 or 5 of the 1940 edition survived, maybe it is one of these and complete. 

 

Andy

 

Edited 14 April , 2020 by stiletto_33853

[Iantopeg]

My great uncle Ernest Cottell died in this battle, 22nd August. He was in 'A' company, 4th platoon, 6th Battalion Somerset Light Infantry.

 

Thanks for all the interesting posts.

 

Ian

 

 

[Iantopeg]

On 21/04/2020 at 13:51, Iantopeg said:

My great uncle Ernest Cottell died in this battle, 22nd August. He was in 'A' company, 4th platoon, 6th Battalion Somerset Light Infantry.

 

Thanks for all the interesting posts.

 

Ian

 

 

 

I discovered that Ernest Cottell's father's grave said that Ernie had died in France on 22nd August, 1917. This is obviously a mistake on the gravestone as his regiment were attacking Inverness Copse on the day that he died and his name is inscribed at Tyne Cott.  This suggests that the family did not know that he had been moved up to Belgium from France, along with most of the 14th division. There must have been many other families who were also not told.