what items did next of kin receive

[themonsstar]

You also get effects of deceased German combatants found by British Forces after action.

Kusentzen, Hugo Victor.

Oberjager

3 Kompagnie

Garde Schutzen, Bataillon No 10.

Medal purse 50 marks in notes.

Pay book.

Postcards.

Notebook.

Found Sept 1914 near Mons.

Wolf, Philipp.

Res Inf Regt 246.

Kamp No 10

No 1599

ID disc.

Pay book.

Packet Wallet.

Photo's

Postcards.

Born 28/5/97

Histenbach

Mosbach

Wurttanborg?

Found 800 yards west of Dernancourt, 25/8/18.

Pfaff, Josef.

Res Inf Regt 221.

No 7476?

No 7 Komp.

Pay book.

2x notebooks.

2x books.

Letters.

Paper.

Born 2?/3/93.

Biederaach.

Waldkirch.

Baden.

Parents address

Sigelau

Aut. Waldkirch

Kra, Freiburg-in-Br.

Baden.

Waldkirch.

Found 25/26 Oct 1918 Raussy.

[Ryegate]

Hi everyone

I have at last received a fax from the National Army Museum re a list of soldier's effects.

I am very excited because for £10 they will give you a copy of the list which, I am informed, typically details the name, rank regiment, when (and sometimes where) he died, his next of kin and how much money was paid to his beneficiary after his death.

It will be good to see what worth was put on these young lives!

I am also informed that as the records are held offsite, they wait until they have enough enquiries to make a trip to the archive worthwhile. So come on all you Forum members, if we all apply together we may get our record in record time!!

I have also asked if they hold any information on POWs and if they have any photographs that can be copied or any other record that does not come under 'Soldier's Effects'.

Cheque for £10 payable to The National Army Museum and address to The National Army Museum, Department of Archives, Royal Hospital Road, Chelsea, SW3 4HT

Can't wait!!!!

Regards

[colin.green14]

Hi,

That is good news, still had no reply from my e-mail to them, bu never mind about that will get order and cheque of today.

Best Regards

Colin

[Ryegate]

Great! The more the merrier!

Regards

[Ian Robertson]

In addition to the money due to his estate from the army, my great grandfather had returned amongst other things an army spoon (still in use today in my Mother's house), a set of other regiments' badges, the lapel badge shown worn by Tom in my avatar, some coins, a souvenir of Bethune, his picture album and a revolver given to my Great Uncle by an officer. My Dad remembers this sitting on top of his the family piano when he was a lad but my Grandmother was always uneasy with it in the house and she eventually got rid of it, worst luck!

[colin.green14]

Hi All

Recieved e-mail with attachment from theArmy Museum today. Shows that my Grandmother recieved £4 8s 6d on 3/10/1917, and a further £9 10s 0d War Gratuity on 3/9/1919. My Grand father dieing of wounds on 8/8/1917 at Ypres.

Not much for the death of a 36 year old with a wife and seven kids at home. Although things do not seem to have changed for our armed forces today!!

Regards

Colin

[Ryegate]

Hi Everyone

Received another e-mail yesterday from the N.A.M. informing me that despite the title 'Personal Effects' the list is only a record of monies paid to the family of the dead soldier and that they do not contain any personal items belonging to the soldier.

I find this a bit strange as some Forum members have posted up some of these lists and they very much do contain personal items.

So I am a bit disappointed that the record relating to my uncle will obviously not have a list of personal items he may have taken with him to the front. Maybe because he has never been identified (no known grave) but it is another avenue closed that I had hoped would give me some insight into the man.

Kate e-mailed me to tell me this before she asked the accounts department to issue my cheque to their bank as she did not want me to be paying for something I thought I was getting but clearly will not. I thought that was very kind of her to consider that but I do still want the record.

Just letting anyone else know who may be thinking of sending off for this 'personal effects' record that they may not contain all that you hope for.

Regards

[Taiha]

Hi,

I have the list of personal effects of an RE Lt. sent to his family in Canada after he DOW in 1915

1 set RE buttons

2 Collar Badges

1 Silver wrist watch and strap

1 Whistle

1 Pocket Knife

1 Two-rule

6 Keys, tied together

1 Compass

1 Pipe

1 Fountain pen

1 pair Compasses

1 Leather tobacco pouch

1 Army Book 153 [What is this, his field message book?]

1 Medallion with photo

Also included was a a list of debts (Mess Bill, Servant's Wages and Grooms Wages) which, after conversion from Francs, came to 17 pounds 3 & 11 and the resulting balance of his account held by the paymaster after those debts were paid (13 pounds 9 & 4). There are also a number of other forms relating to his pay.

[hillgorilla]

My Great Grandmother received a Scots Guards cap badge and shoulder title for her brother killed in Janaury 1915 at Cuinchy.He is listed as one of the missing, so I suppose that is all that was left.

[colin.green14]

Hi

It maybe the case that in regards to personnel effects Other Ranks are treated somewhat differntly to NCO's and Oficers.

Regards

Colinj

Hi

It maybe the case that in regards to personnel effects Other Ranks are treated somewhat differntly to NCO's and Oficers.

Regards

Colin

[Ryegate]

Hi Colin

Maybe that is the answer then but surely even privates had things with them that were meaningful to them?

I know my uncle sent a postcard to my granddad and grandma from the front. You would have thought they may have sent letters to him also that would have to be somewhere?

He was only 21 when killed and I am thinking that his parents would have sent something for his 'coming of age'.

I wonder what happened to those things if all we have left is the money that was owed and was forwarded to his parents.

Sad eh?

Will have to try something else but not sure what. I have nothing for him except his CWWG record which of course, is better than nothing but no service record, and it would appear, no knowledge of personal effects.

Poor man.

Regards

[Ryegate]

And I am told that no personal items are listed in these records!

You are so lucky to have this. It is a wonderful account of this man and what was of value to him.

Regards

Hi,

I have the list of personal effects of an RE Lt. sent to his family in Canada after he DOW in 1915

1 set RE buttons

2 Collar Badges

1 Silver wrist watch and strap

1 Whistle

1 Pocket Knife

1 Two-rule

6 Keys, tied together

1 Compass

1 Pipe

1 Fountain pen

1 pair Compasses

1 Leather tobacco pouch

1 Army Book 153 [What is this, his field message book?]

1 Medallion with photo

Also included was a a list of debts (Mess Bill, Servant's Wages and Grooms Wages) which, after conversion from Francs, came to 17 pounds 3 & 11 and the resulting balance of his account held by the paymaster after those debts were paid (13 pounds 9 & 4). There are also a number of other forms relating to his pay.

[colin.green14]

Hi Ryegate

I will e-mail the lady at the Army Museum to see if she has any knowledge regarding army policy with respect to personnel belongings of Other Ranks and Officers.

Regards

Colin

[Ryegate]

Thank you Colin, that is very kind of you.

Regards

[brummie60]

I have a copy of a letter sent to the father of an officer in the R Warwicks who died on 14th Oct 1914, this was apparantly in reply to a letter from the father claiming compensation for his lost kit. The letter said "the late Captain threw his sword away on 26th August. His kit was burnt by order during the retirement"

This looks as if the uniform and sword were personal property of an officer.

Alan

[Bob Doneley]

Reading through Australian service records, it is poignant to see the importance that families placed on these personal effects. In their efforts to get something that their loved one had in his possession, these families often generated voluminous correspondence with the AIF Records Office attempting to track down wayward parcels or items. This corresepondence is usually contained in the service records, available on-line at no charge.

On an official level the next of kin, over the 5-10 years after the war, received the soldier's medal entitlements, the NOK plaque, Memorial Scroll, letter from Buckingham Plalace, a photo of his grave where known (in cardboard folder with grave and cemetery details), a Mother's/Widow badge (a length of black ribbon with the AIF badge surrounded by sprigs of wattle, suspended between two metal bars - the lower badge carried a star for each son/husband killed) and a booklet "Where the Australians Rest". This last was approximately A4-size, soft purple cover, with a description and sketches of most of the major cemeteries containing Australians.

After the war, as bodies were located and re-buried, items on the body would be returned by the War Graves Service to the family - if presentable. I have an aluminium identity disc recovered from a body of an Australian killed at Pozieres in 1916. His grave was lost until 1923; when he was exhumed his ID disc was sent to his father with a letter explaining its origins, and expressing a desire to return this to the father "in light of its intimate connection with your late son."

Bob

[Paul Stephens]

Hi Ryegate,

I'm not sure how much use this will be to you, but I have attached a copy of Army Form 118A. It is an internal form requesting that the personal effects of a deceased soldier (in this case my great-grandfather - a Private) be returned to the next of kin.

On the left hand side is a brief record of what was eventually returned - a few letters and a photograph.

If nothing else it confirms that there definitely was a procedure in place to return the belongings of ORs as well as officers.

I hope this is of use.

Cheers

Paul

[Muskoka]

Vera Brittain wrote in Testament of Youth about her fiance's family receiving his kit after his death. "The garments sent back included the outfit that he had been wearing when he was hit.... the tunic torn back and front by the bullet, a khaki vest dark and stiff with blood, and a pair of blood-stained breeches..... For though he had only worn the things when living, the smell of those clothes was the smell of graveyards and the Dead."

I recall being horrified when first reading this, that these clothes would have been sent home to his grieving family!

[bantamforgot]

Postcards received by my grandmother after the death of her husband KIA 1st. Sep't 1916, note last PC from his daughter dated 16.Sep't. 1916

Colin

[Ice Tiger]

Here's an Australian one for you

Sent to his father in Addlestone, Surrey.

Further details of this AIF soldier, Nelson Noakes, on my website (link below)

Andy

[Ice Tiger]

This shows that his father received a pension but as it's shown as "withdrawn" I think this was probably a one off payment.

Andy

[Hett65]

Harold Arthur Collison Serjeant P/3479 Military Foot Police was murdered by 2nd Lt John Henry Paterson on the 3rd July 1918, Paterson was later 'Shot at Dawn' for the murder.

On the 26th October 1918 Mrs Collison received the following items.

Photographs

Pocket book

Church Army badges

News cuttings

Small mirror

Bunch of keys

Watch and chain

Medal & key attached

Knife

Handkerchief

DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT MEDAL

MERITORIOUS SERVICE MEDAL

Nice to see the gallantry medals were returned to her, unfortunately the BWM & Victory medal were returned to the records office in 1920. (Reason not known)

John

[colin.green14]

Hi All,

The following is the reply to my questions regarding Soldiers Effects sent to the Army Museum.

Dear Mr Green,

Thank you for your email. We have had several people recently asking us for

details about personal items eg letters, and I suspect that somewhere on a

WW1 Forum some erroneous information has crept in. As far as I am aware,

there are no systematic records for possessions that were returned, and

anything that was would have gone straight to the family. The records in

our possession simply detail any monies that were owing to the deceased

because that was the only legal requirement that needed to be fulfilled.

Unfortunately our records have this confusing title of "Soldier's Effects"

which was given to them by the War Office around 150 years ago, and which we

cannot change.

The survival rate of personal ephemera, such as letters, was very low due to

the conditions of trench warfare. Indeed most of the WW1 letters in our

collection are ones that were sent back from the trenches to England, rather

that the other way round. The Army tradition, certainly with officers, was

to auction the items, especially if there were useful things such as

watches, razors etc. This may sound callous but actually it was a way of

raising money to send back to the man's family. During the First World War

this still sometimes happened, although the problems of recovering bodies

made this much more difficult.

I hope that this has helped to clarify the situation.

Yours sincerely,

Kate Portelli

Regards

Colin

[bantamforgot]

Hence the postcards sent back to the family as I posted was due to the compassion of the officer in charge of such things. Especially as the last PC was written to her father querying his lack of communication , he had by then been KIA.

Colin

Colin

[GordonT]

Following the recent posts about "Soldiers Effects" I too applied re my Uncle L/Cpl W. Ticehurst, and have received details of the monies paid to his father in 1914 (when he was killed) and the war gratuity paid in 1919 to his mother, his father having died. For me the one big bit of info on the form was his date of enlistment, April 1912, and his occupation at that time. This was very exciting as, with his service records destroyed, I had no idea of these details. It has helped me fill in some more of my family history. A very worthwhile exercise and extremely good service from the Army Museum.