Service record

[wulsten]

reason for discharge ? could this be to the RAF and if service home only ? would his entitlement be the BWM only ?

[Adrian Roberts]

HMS President II was a shore base, probably where he did his basic training. I'm not sure where it was.

Cranwell was and still is the Central Flying School, in Bedfordshire. I thought this was an RFC facility before the RAF was formed, so I'm a little surprised he served there.

I think the bottom line says "Daedalus". If so this would be the Naval Air Station at Lee-on-Solent.

And of course the stamp indicates that he transferred to the RAF on its formation on 1/4/18.

The entry under rating appears to say AM1 - Air Mechanic First Class

Adrian

[wulsten]

RNAS

[mike j dunn]

During the Great War, the RNAS had an airship training base at Cranwell. The current MOD websiste for NIGS Cranwell says:

".....Originally HMS Daedalus, a Royal Naval Air Service training and airship base, the site that is now RAF Cranwell was taken over by the RAF".

The Cranwell College website says:

"... by November 1915 the Admiralty had requisitioned some 2,500 acres of farmland, mainly from the Earl of Bristol's estate. In the following month, construction of a hutted camp and aircraft hangars began. The Royal Naval Air Service Central Training Establishment Cranwell was commissioned on 1 April 1916, under the command of Commodore Godfrey M. Paine.

Cranwell later became known as HMS Daedalus. This was not strictly correct but arose because the officers and ratings of the Central Training Establishment at Cranwell were borne on the books of HMS Daedalus which was a hulk in the Medway and the nominal depot ship for all RNAS personnel serving on other stations. In addition to flying training and airship operations, a Boys' Training Wing was also established at Cranwell. Its task was to train Naval ratings as air mechanics and riggers"

I hope this helps,

Mike

[wulsten]

Mike, thanks for the reply and information, Geoff

[MikeW]

Let's start again shall we:

President II was the Crystal Palace for basic training

Cranwell is in Lincolnshire - it was set up as the principal training establishment of the RNAS.

HMS Daedalus was also Cranwell

Mike

[per ardua per mare per terram]

President II was another of those nominal admin base depots for all RNAS personnel serving on other stations; anywhere from Aberdeen to France! Crystal Palace was just one of the places covered by President II' it also covered Cranwell as well as shown by the ditto marks preceding the name written in full.

According to Warlow, 'Shore Establishments:' Daedalus was Lee on Solent RNAS from 1917. As Mike Dunn says HMS Daedalus was a hulk in the Medway, but became the nominal depot ship for the RNAS, (superseding President II) including Cranwell, shown by the ditto marks in brackets after Daedalus.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

His full medal entitlement should be on the alphabetical medal roll in ADM 171/107 It might also be on his RAF service papers in AIR 79, but it was probably BWM only.

ACT = Acting

[MikeW]

President II was another of those nominal admin base depots for all RNAS personnel serving on other stations; anywhere from Aberdeen to France! Crystal Palace was just one of the places covered by President II' it also covered Cranwell as well as shown by the ditto marks preceding the name written in full.

excuse me, does it say (CPalace) or not immediately beneath "President II" and ( ") immediately after "Daedalus"

Wulston asked for interpretion of where Kemp was. I believe he received training at Crystal Palace and then Cranwell (which was pretty normal) and was then posted to work at Cranwell.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The allocations say: President II (CPalace) from 26 November to 28 Nov 1917. I think that he was there for assessment, I doubt that there is much training he would achieve in 2 days.

" [ditto President II] Cranwell from 29 November to 8 March 1918. He went to Cranwell; this could have been to the school, airship station or one of Cranwell's sub-stations for training and his duties.

Daedalus (") [ditto Cranwell] he remained at Cranwell, but his nominal depot ship had changed to Daedalus from 9 March 1918 to 31st when he transferred to the RAF. He has another record in AIR 79: that will show the RAF trade he had, but might only show 'labourer' as the RAF didn't seem to have a list of trades relating to airships.

The depot 'ships' President II and Daedalus covered the administration while he served at Cranwell (or a sub-station) apart from 2 days at Crystal Palace. As I wrote Crystal Palace was covered by President II. Cranwell was initially administered by President II [he kept the same list and number for both Crystal Palace and Cranwell] and then by Daedalus [his number on their books was different].

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I'd be interested in seeing any evidence that further training was pretty normal at Cranwell. I haven't seen any documented myself and as the RNAS had over 55,000 other ranks (even though they weren't all air mechanics and riggers) I doubt that they had the capacity or sufficient instructors.

[wulsten]

I believe access to this RAF record is available at the NA.

Also one question other individuals transferred to the RAF usually have a medal entitlement impressed RAF why is his RNAS or is this another indication that he served home only as other individuals would have earned entitlement in a theatre of war ?

[per ardua per mare per terram]

His service record should be in AIR 79/2181 242191 - 242300.

I would think that it is more likely he worked in connection with airships than at the school. Possibly if he was airship crew he got a pair. It is probable did not serve overseas with the RAF and it was his RNAS service on a shore base that qualified him for the BWM.

[wulsten]

Cheers and many thanks for the help

[wulsten]

registration district of Garstang