Death certificate WW1 Soldier 1918

[gosling]

Hi, Wonder if any one can help I have been trying to locate the death certificate of A Gosling Northumberland Fusiliers 14th Batt L/CPL (Serv Num 37239) who has a war grave in Newcastle-upon-tyne (All Saints) Cemetery.

His WW1 scroll says he died 'Home' 15/07/1918 aged 42yrs but I cant locate his certificate have even checked the BDM for upto 6yrs after the date he died.

His birth certificate can't be traced either as his father was in the army and Athur was born in Lucknow, India 1876.

Hope someone can help thank you......

[John_Hartley]

It is possible that he died on service in, say, Ireland and his name wouldnt therefore appear on England/Wales BMD websites.

Suggest you try to find the burial registers for the cemetery to confirm the date of death - and also local newspapers to see if there was any mention of the funeral (possible if it was with "military honours").

John

[dahaniuk]

I contacted our local cemetary looking for my Great Grandmothers and Great Grandfathers graves. I gave them the dates of death and they came back to me with my G Grandmothers saying her Husband was buried with her but the date of death was wrong.

It turned out to be her Son, who had the same name as his Father, who I couldn't find. I now had his date of death and last known address but there was nothing in the registers for him.

I sent his name, date of death etc to our local register office as that is the area he died in and back came a Death Certificate.

I don't know if this will help you, it appears not all deaths are in the registers.

Regards

Jill

[johngasson]

Hi Alvin,

I believe armed service death certificates are listed in a seperate index, I think both findmypast.com and familyrelatives.com has these indexes on pay-to-view (I would check for you but have no credits on either at the moment). Presumably the indexes are also available at the Family Records Centre.

It is a while since I ordered one, but I think they come under overseas records and can be ordered through the GRO website like normal BMD certificates.

The information contained on them is very basic, I think the only thing that I hadn't actually filled in on the order form was the battalion number, apart from that everything was as I had submitted (I already knew the battalion number from other sources).

The data headings on the certificate I received are: Rgtl. or Army number, Rank, Name in Full (Surname First), Age, Country of Birth, Date of Death, Place of Death and Cause of Death.

To quote from the GRO website:

Death certificates normally contain:

• date and place of death (just the country, in the case of war deaths)

name and surname of the deceased

date of birth or age at death

In respect of war deaths, the information is very limited. It will not include, next of kin details or places of burials nor will it be very specific as to the cause of death – often the cause will be given as ‘killed in action’, ‘died of wounds’ or ‘on war service’. More information may be obtained from either, the service record of the individual, or their memorial.

Hope this helps

John

[John_Hartley]

John

You are correct in your description of the Overseas Death Register.

However, as the chap is buried in the UK, he cannot have died overseas.

John

[ian turner]

And if he died in Ireland? Would his remains have been returned to England? In that case where would his death cert be?

UK, overseas, Ireland?

Ian

[punjab612]

And if he died in Ireland? Would his remains have been returned to England? In that case where would his death cert be?

UK, overseas, Ireland?

Deaths have to be registered in the registration district in which the person died.

Peter

[ian turner]

Deaths have to be registered in the registration district in which the person died.

Peter

Thanks Peter. Perhaps I did not make my questions clear enough.

1) Died at home = usual death cert in local registration district.

2) Killed in action - death cert registered in the ''overseas'' section

3) My question - death in Ireland. Where registered - in Ireland? If so what happened to the documentation? Was it returned to the UK after the creation of the Irish Republic, or were they destroyed?

4) My question - and was it possible that the body was repatriated or would it have been buried in Ireland?

This was directed at John Hartley's response, pointing out the diffrences between died at home and KIA. But I am left wondering what happened to a death in Ireland, which may have resulted in complicaitons due to the immediate post war history. Refering to his earlier post, I think John would divine my meaning, even if I did not go into detail!

Ian

[Pete L]

Hi Alvin

Overseas BMDs are online at findmypast.com. Probably no good for his death, but you have a good chance of finding his birth, and those of any siblings. Maybe his parents were also married abroad. You can order them from the GRO online site, and they cost £7 each.

I suggest you do a new post along the lines of “Where were the 14th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers in July 1918”. If they were abroad he would almost certainly have died at home, in which case you can follow Jill’s idea.

If he died in Ireland (which was also “home”), you can print off an order form from the Irish GRO and post/fax it to them with your credit card details.

Where have you looked for the BMD records for England and Wales?

Also, at his age there is a good chance he was married. If so, his widow should have received a pension. These files are in WO 364 at Kew, and Ancestry are currently putting them online.

Pete

[linge]

Alvin

You probably already have this information but just in case.

Just a thought there is a death registered in the correct Quarter ie Sept 1918 as follows:

Arthur Gosling, aged 47, South Stoneham RD 2c 98

I know the age is not correct 47 as opposed to 42 but this could possibly result from someone misreading the 2 for a 7.

South Stoneham is in Hampshire on the coast approx 3 miles north east of Southampton. Maybe he died at a hospital in the area and his body was returned home for burial. One of the war graves in our local cemetery of Haydon Bridge, Northumberland the chap died in Dover Military Hospital and his body was returned home for burial.

The LDS Church's IGI Index records the birth christening details of:

Arthur Ainsles (Ainslie) Gosling born 7th July 1875 and christened 13th August 1875 Lucknow, West Bengal, India. The parent's names are given as John Gosling and Julia Ellen

This is not in agreement with the CWGC Record which gives John Craig and Ellen Agatha Gosling.

I believe his parents were actually John Crago Gosling and Julia Ellen Gosling (nne Maune) married Mar Qtr 1859 Portsea this accords with details on 1881 Census.

I think his mother died in 1890 aged 49 in Newcastle upon Tyne (the father is a widow at the time of the 1891 Census and remarries in 1895 Katie Alderson) and his father died in 1908 aged 73 again in Newcatle upon Tyne.

Regards

Pam

[Terry Denham]

As Ireland was part of the UK, 'repatriation' does not come into it. His body could have been transported to any part of the UK for burial.

As was stated above, his death would have been registered in Ireland where all such records remained after 1922.

[toffo]

Alvin,

have PM'd you...toffo

[sandyford]

Alvin

Not sure if you have this already but just in case, here is a photo of the CWGC gravestone in All Saints cemetery Ncle.

If you email me your email address I can send you the inages at full size.

Kate

[sandyford]

Behind the CWGC stone is what seems to be a family stone, you will be able to make it out on a zoom of the larger image.

It says

Ellen Agatha

Beloved wife of J. C. Gosling

Who died February 2nd 1890

Aged 49 years

A tertiary of St. Dominic

The above

John Crago Gosling

Died September 11th 1908

Aged 73 years.

kate

[sandyford]

And here is the notice of his funeral in the Newcastle Evening Chronicle on 18th July 1918.

I checked the Chronicle on the Friday to see if there had been any mention of a funeral with military honours but there was no mention.

Kate

[IanandLindsay]

Hi,

Not sure if you got any further on this but there is data now available with more information.

He was shipped back from the Western front and died in Nutley, Hampshire, unknown whether this was due to wounds or disease, before he was transported back to the NE.

http://www.newmp.org.uk/

Rgds

Edited 12 November , 2023 by IanandLindsay

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. @gosling last visited the forum in 2016. My tag may or may not alert them to your post.