Albert Ball's Aircraft at Hendon

[Springer6]

This famous photo of Albert Ball VC shows him, hatless, in the uniform of a 2nd Lt. of the 2/7th Sherwood Foresters, flying coart and goggles in hand and standing in front of an aircraft. The albertball.homestead.com web site captions this photo as being in 1915 at Hendon, at the completion of his privately financed flying course at the Ruffy-Baumann School.

The biplane behind him appears to have a "monsoupape" single external valve rotary engine in a semi open type cowling and a rather square type wing rigging.

Can anyone identify the type of aircraft in this famous photograph?

[fitzee]

I believe the aircraft is a "Cuadron G 3 "

[Dolphin]

As Fitzee says, it certainly looks like a Caudron G.III, a French built machine powered by a rotary engine that was used as an artillery spotter, and then as a trainer, in the early to mid-War period. A photograph of a G.III in French service is below.

Gareth

[centurion]

It certainly has a Caudron look about it. However all the photos of Caudrons G3s in British service I've seen have no gap between the fuselage and the lower wing. However the RFC did acquire 2 Caudron G4 twin engined aircraft one of which was flown to Britain in January 1916. If Ball was photographed standing in front of one of the engines of this it would match the photo.

However if the aircraft is a privately owned school aircraft it could be one of the pre war Caudrons (generically known as 45 HP Caudrons although a variety of engines were fitted) built by Hewlet and Blondeau under licence or the similar Caudron C. Both of these did have a gap between the fuselage and the lower wing and both were used by private flying schools in the early war years.

[Springer6]

It certainly has a Caudron look about it. However all the photos of Caudrons G3s in British service I've seen have no gap between the fuselage and the lower wing. However the RFC did acquire 2 Caudron G4 twin engined aircraft one of which was flown to Britain in January 1916. If Ball was photographed standing in front of one of the engines of this it would match the photo.

However if the aircraft is a privately owned school aircraft it could be one of the pre war Caudrons (generically known as 45 HP Caudrons although a variety of engines were fitted) built by Hewlet and Blondeau under licence or the similar Caudron C. Both of these did have a gap between the fuselage and the lower wing and both were used by private flying schools in the early war years.

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Yes it certainly has a Caudron look about it. I hadn't spotted that.

If it was indeed at the private Ruffy-Baumann school in 1915 at Hendon, I do not think it could have been a G4 twin as it was perhaps bit early for it to have been on a training field in 1915.

A web site actonhistory.co.uk describes the Ruffy-Baumann school moving from Hendon to Acton in 1917 with " 12 Caudron G2 tractor bi-planes" . I've found it difficult to find a photo of a G2, but the attached was displayed uncaptioned on a page with a G3. If it is a G2 , it does indeed have a gap between the fuselage and lower wing. The particular aircraft shown has no cowling, but it is reasonable to suppose that the G2 (from which the G3 was developed ) was normally fitted with a "horseshoe" cowling similar to the G3 and to the aircraft in Albert Ball's photo.

[centurion]

That's a Caudron 45Hp as mentioned in my previous post. The G2 was more substantial (the French Navy operated some as seaplanes). I don't have a photo either but I have seen a drawing, I think it may have had the fuselage nacelle mounted mid wing - I'll see if I can find that drawing.

[Springer6]

That's a Caudron 45Hp as mentioned in my previous post. The G2 was more substantial (the French Navy operated some as seaplanes). I don't have a photo either but I have seen a drawing, I think it may have had the fuselage nacelle mounted mid wing - I'll see if I can find that drawing.

Thanks Centurian , I suspected that the 45Hp photo wasn't a G2 as it seems a much smaller aircraft than the G3, unless that's a very tall man.

In Alan Clarke's "Aces High " page 107 , there is a less cropped version of the Albert Ball photograph. In it you can just see where the engine cowling at the left side is curving down to the wing surface in the style of the G3 photographed above. You can also clearly see the underside of the upper wing which bears no roundel, lending weight to the theory that this was a civilian owned aircraft ( by the flight school?). If it had been a G4 it would almost certainly have had a roundel and the undercarriage ( just visible behind Ball's leg ) would have been more directly under the engine nacelle.

I would be very interested to see any drawings of a G2 . I have a photo of what looks like a seaplane version of a G2/G3 but it was captioned as a J4. This aircraft has a good gap between nacelle and lower wing. It also has a roundel on the lower not upper wing (which damages my above theory somewhat ).

Thanks again for the help.

[centurion]

Nice photo - It looks very like what I remember of the G2 drawing with floats added. - possibly G2 was the land plane version and J4 the seaplane edition. With the other info this would suggest young Albert is standing in front of a Caudron G2

[Springer6]

Nice photo - It looks very like what I remember of the G2 drawing with floats added. - possibly G2 was the land plane version and J4 the seaplane edition. With the other info this would suggest young Albert is standing in front of a Caudron G2

Yes the strong balance of probability is that 2nd Lt Ball 2/7th Notts & Derbys ( Robin Hoods) is standing in front of a Caudron G2 after completion of his flying course at the Ruffy-Baumann private flying school at Hendon in 1915. This was a sort of "Graduation Photograph" , I suspect , prior to him joining the RFC.

I understand that the G2 was a single seater. If so the school must have subscribed to the French idea of flying instruction i.e. " instruct well and then pray" , even though Herr Baumann was Swiss !

Interesting that you thought that the J4 was very like your recollection of the G2 , but with floats. I found an article describing a 1/72 model by AIRKIT of France . The reviewer stated that AIRKIT had mistakenly labelled their floatplane as a G2 whilst it was in fact a J type. So they must have been very similar, although the floatplane kit was a twin seater.

Thanks again for your interest and suggestions. I really would like to see a drawing of a G2 , if you can possibly turn it up.

[centurion]

I'll do a search. My recollection was that the G2 was a two seater, however a number of early French aircraft were available in single and two seat versions eg. the Nieuport IX