Peter Woodger Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 Hi There are no RAMC men buried in Ancre Cemetery with dates of 13th November 1916. There are no RNVR men listed as Medical. There are 7 RMLI (1 cpl and 6 Ptes) listed as Medical Unit. Killed 13/14th November In Hamel, where I assume the ADS to be there is 1 Officer and I OR of RAMC with 13th Nov Date. Did the Marines call stretcher bearers Medical Unit or were these men who manned the Regimental Aid Posts? Did the Marines provide a service for the Division or were the RNVR men just not separately identified? Did the RAMC provide Medical Officers to the 13 Battalions of 63Rd Div and all their luck held or all are on Thiepval? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 The history of the RND refers (page 48) to the "Medical Unit" being formed at Crystal Palace in Dec 1914, with Fleet Surgeon Finch and Staff Surgeons Stanford and Fleming to command he three Field Ambulances. On pages 171-172, the reorganisation on moving to France is discussed, and it seems that Medical Units wer(RN) until 1917e still staffed by the Admiralty: "..the Medical Units...were not interfered with." The chief medic was a Fleet Surgeon. The Field Ambulances continued to be the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, becoming the 148th (RN), 149th (RN) and 150th(RN) in June 1917. Looks to me like the medics were naval, though it is entirely possible that RAMC men might have been attached. How the RN/RNVR/RNR medical ranks would have been identified I have no idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 Have seen several CWGC graves in Gallipoli which show RN Medical Unit - if you contact me off site I might be able to help with indentification of indivduals Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 Did the Marines call stretcher bearers Medical Unit or were these men who manned the Regimental Aid Posts? The Royal Marines Medical Unit (RMMU) of the RND provided Field Ambulances and also personnel for the RAPs. Battalion personnel were also detailed off as stretcher bearers as they could be spared/as required. Did the Marines provide a service for the Division or were the RNVR men just not separately identified? As above, the RMMU marines were the dedicated medical service to the RND. Did the RAMC provide Medical Officers to the 13 Battalions of 63Rd Div and all their luck held or all are on Thiepval? Yes, RAMC officers were also posted to the RMMU Field Ambulances and also as Battalion MOs. At Beaucourt, some 17 RMMU personel were killed on 13 and 14 November. Among them were three medical officers: Temp Lt GV Guthrie RAMC (3rd FA) buried in Knightbridge Cemetery, Mesnil-Martinsart. Captain JD Forrester RAMC (3rd FA) buried in Hamel Military Cemetery Temp Surgeon GA Walker RN buried in Hamel Military Cemetery The above does not include Army casualties in 190 Bde RND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 An appeal went out in local newspapers to members of the St.Johns Ambulance Brigade from this region to help form the RND Ambulance units and from what I remember of a photo seen some years ago the R.Marines did infact provide medical assistance and in my opinion they were actually these volunteers from the S.J.A.B. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 An appeal went out in local newspapers to members of the St.Johns Ambulance Brigade from this region to help form the RND Ambulance units and from what I remember of a photo seen some years ago the R.Marines did infact provide medical assistance and in my opinion they were actually these volunteers from the S.J.A.B. Graham. Quite correct, lots of SJAB did go into the RMMU RND as marines. Many of them were miners and their strength was a great asset in moving stretchers. They distinguished themselves in battle, many being decorated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 RMMU of the RND assisting wounded German prisoners. This was taken from the Carman/Marrion article on the RND from Military Modeller. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 A classic example of a St John's Ambulance man recruited into the RND Medical unit is this old boy of Bury Grammar School, Lancashire: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=243996 Name: HOUGHTON, ARTHUR HAMILTON Initials: A H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Royal Marines Unit Text: R.M. Medical Unit, R.N. Div. Age: 26 Date of Death: 19/12/1917 Service No: Deal/4392(S) Additional information: Son of Arthur Webster Houghton and Martha Kate Houghton. Born at Aldeburgh, Suffolk. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: VII. B. 27. Cemetery: ROCQUIGNY-EQUANCOURT ROAD BRITISH CEMETERY, MANANCOURT Tragically, Arthur Houghton and his brother, a fellow member of the RM Medical Unit also an old boy of our school, were involved in a bizarre 'blue on blue' incident shortly after the Battle of Cambrai. They were together in a dugout when a careless orderly threw a bucket of petrol on a brazier to douse it instead of water. Both suffered terrible burns, Arthur died but his brother survived. One of the most moving occasions on any of our school battlefield tours came in 2002 when my pupil Richard Chernick, then a senior NCO in the St John's Ambulance, laid a special wreath on Arthur's grave at Rocquigny-Equancourt Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 7 July , 2007 Share Posted 7 July , 2007 According to Capt. K Douglas-Morris in Naval Long Service Medals The RN Auxilliary Sick Berth Reserve (formed 1903) was drawn from the St John's Ambulance, further that the Mercantile Marine had a requirement for a medical officer for every '100 souls' aboard going back to 1890 and this was answered by ships officers with St John's Ambulance First Aid Qualifications. So there was a precident for drawing on the St John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 8 July , 2007 Share Posted 8 July , 2007 quote: "At Beaucourt, some 17 RMMU personel were killed on 13 and 14 November. Among them were three medical officers: Temp Lt GV Guthrie RAMC (3rd FA) buried in Knightbridge Cemetery, Mesnil-Martinsart. Captain JD Forrester RAMC (3rd FA) buried in Hamel Military Cemetery Temp Surgeon GA Walker RN buried in Hamel Military Cemetery" John M.'s casualty figures/roll [see the other thread Peter for details] differs here from that as given by H2 above As well as the three officers mentioned by H2, he also lists 19 RM Deal other ranks including 1 who Died of Wounds on the 17th and another who DoW on the 28th November 1916 also note that of the above Pt Fielding, died 13 Nov, is given as att. 189th MGC Capt Forrester RAMC, died 14 Nov, and Lt. Guthrie died 13 Nov, are given at att. 3rd FA Pt Jenkins, died 13 Nov, is given as att. Anson Bn Surgeon Lt. Walker RN, died 14 Nov, is given as att. 1st FA once again E&OE and regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 8 July , 2007 Share Posted 8 July , 2007 War diaries and operational orders ADM 137/3069 150th Field Ambulance 1916 May-1919 May ADM 137/3070 149th Field Ambulance 1916 May-1919 May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHF Posted 6 July , 2015 Share Posted 6 July , 2015 QUOTE (Graham Stewart @ Jul 7 2007, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> An appeal went out in local newspapers to members of the St.Johns Ambulance Brigade from this region to help form the RND Ambulance units and from what I remember of a photo seen some years ago the R.Marines did infact provide medical assistance and in my opinion they were actually these volunteers from the S.J.A.B.Graham. Quite correct, lots of SJAB did go into the RMMU RND as marines. Many of them were miners and their strength was a great asset in moving stretchers. They distinguished themselves in battle, many being decorated. My grandfather John Charles Hunter {Register No [Deal] 3287 (S)}was posted to the RMMU on 20 Jan 1915. He was a coal mine deputy overman before joining up. In my 10 years in the industry - I gained my colliery manager's certificate in 1967 - a miner had to hold a current first aid certificate before the mine manager could employ him as a deputy or as an overman. I believe this was also the case in the decade in which WW1 took place. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Wilson Posted 15 November , 2021 Share Posted 15 November , 2021 Hello gents, What means are there to identify which Field Ambulance RMMU (1/2/3 148/149/150) a person was in? I have #4175 Fred Saxon and the names of the commanding officer on the form which is marked "R.C.O" Commanding officers: Burton & Allison "In the field" from Jan 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 November , 2021 Share Posted 15 November , 2021 (edited) Details of his service are on his RND (RMMU) record card and should show where he was employed. These cards (together with his attestation papers, AFB103, etc) are held in the archive of the Fleet Air Arm Museum (National Museum of the Royal Navy) and cannot be seen anywhere else. Unfortunately for you, the NMRN has been closed to all service record and other enquiries since December 2018 and no resumption of service has been notified. If they do ever open again you know where to apply. You could try them now but be prepared for a negative response. If he did serve in an RND field ambulance after his arrival in the BEF in January 1917, it will have been in 148.149 or 150 FA. Fleet Surgeon Edward Theodore Burton RN commanded the Medical Unit (and RMMU reserves) at Blandford Camp until December 1917. I have not been able to identify "GF? ALLISON". Edited 15 November , 2021 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Wilson Posted 15 November , 2021 Share Posted 15 November , 2021 (edited) Maybe somebody can link the C/Os to somebody they know. It looks like GF Allision to me. Burton signed for him last March 1917 so perhaps his service actually began then. Edited 15 November , 2021 by CJ Wilson add photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 November , 2021 Share Posted 15 November , 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, CJ Wilson said: Burton signed for him last March 1917 so perhaps his service actually began then. That is correct. He was drafted from Blandford to Active Service with the BEF on 16 March 1917. Edited 16 November , 2021 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 November , 2021 Share Posted 15 November , 2021 GF ALLISON may be Major George Frederick ALLISON RAMC, awarded MC when attached to 149 FA RND. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31266/supplement/4324 and https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31680/supplement/15314 If correct, this could place Pte SAXON in 149 FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Wilson Posted 16 November , 2021 Share Posted 16 November , 2021 20 hours ago, horatio2 said: GF ALLISON may be Major George Frederick ALLISON RAMC, awarded MC when attached to 149 FA RND. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31266/supplement/4324 and https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31680/supplement/15314 If correct, this could place Pte SAXON in 149 FA. Thanks I appreciate it, very much so. Wasn't able to track Allison down nice work. Simple review of 149 FA War Diary should confirm more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Wilson Posted 16 November , 2021 Share Posted 16 November , 2021 22 hours ago, horatio2 said: The War Diary for 149th FA states it became 149th FA July 19th, 1917 (was 2nd FA) Just fyi that seems to be the cutoff date, if its of any research relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 16 November , 2021 Share Posted 16 November , 2021 Just an administrative change of numbers for the three RN FAs, as far as I can see, although it did come at the end of a transition period which saw most RN surgeons replaced by RAMC doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Wilson Posted 25 November , 2021 Share Posted 25 November , 2021 On 16/11/2021 at 17:01, horatio2 said: Just an administrative change of numbers for the three RN FAs, as far as I can see, although it did come at the end of a transition period which saw most RN surgeons replaced by RAMC doctors. 149 FA has a very concise. The parts around the Battle of Cambrai are good, and the German Spring offensive 1918 has them packing up the circus to move back 10 miles every single day. It seems GF Allison RAMC was first posted to 149 FA on 19 May 1918 at the Abbey of Clairfaye. Courtesy Ancestry.ca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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