Guest newworldmember Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Can someone please explain the meaning of 'Toc-H' as it applies to Talbot House in Poperinghe? I believe it had something to do with BEF radio operators, but the exact meaning is unclear to me, and I've never seen an explanation in any book. I'd also like to know how The Rev. 'Tubby' Clayton spelled his first name. Was it 'Phillip' or 'Philip'? I believe the first spelling may be wrong, but I can't confirm that. Thanks in advance for any and all help. Cory Kilvert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Philip Byard Clayton Taken from the book "Tubby Clayton". Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 I think "Toc" was radio code at the time for the letter "T" , in the same manner that it is "T Tango" today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Google search on Toc H & Radio gave a few results one being... "Toc-H was the radio shorthand for Talbot House and the name stuck" Ian is probably right, wasn't Don for D as in "Don R" = dispatch rider? Further search Phonetic 1904 here That has answered a lot, like Emma Gee, Ack Ack. Thanks newworldmember , I learnt there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Stuart , Interesting that the Phoenetic list claims that "Pip" for P only came along in 1927. I would have thought that "Ack Emma" for A.M would have had to have had "Pip Emma" for P.M alongside it from 1904. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Ian, True. What an interesting thread. I knew Beer Beer meant Barrage Balloon and now I know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris basey Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Cory Two sites that give a good background to Tubby and dear old Talbot House: http://www.toch.org.uk/tubby_clayton_toc_h.htm http://www.worldwar1.com/sftoch.htm If your interest in the subject grows you will have to visit the house in Poperinge but, I believe, there are some changes to come in May after which there may not be such full access to all parts of the building. Go soon!! Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 I may be wrong here,but i seem to remember my Grandparents,and i think my dad,describing people as being,"mad as a Toc-H lamp". What a Toc-H lamp was,i never found out,being a small kid at the time. Regards. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Simon The saying was "as dim as a Toc-H lamp". Go to the Toc-H website and click on "information" where you will see one. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Cheers Terry. On my way. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 I now see why it was"dim as a Toc-h Lamp",Terry!! Pass me a torch. Isn't it amazing how these sayings,are changed by people. It was obviously passed down through my family,over the years,and changed to become"as mad as a Toc-H Lamp". Marvellous stuff. Many thanks. Happy New Year,Terry. Regards. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_East Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Toc H, The dimmed lighting (probably oil lamps) within Talbot House led to the derogatory expression "As dim as a Toc H lamp" as a reference to the degree of intelligence a person was said to possess.It was used in the many forms of coercion which took place in the British military structure and was used as a disparaging comment to erks or others of lower rank than the user.Of course the expression was traded amongst equals in the barrack room and was also used to describe a senior man but hardly in his presence. It was still being used in the 1950s and is still being used by the older of us.It has stood the test of time. It used to be a good indicator of past military service. Regards Frank East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 May I make a minor correction to this? It was not "radio shorthand" as, strictly speaking, that did not exist. The technology to transmit voice via radio existed, but was huge and impractical for a battlefield. Radio transmission in the armed forces normally took the form of morse only. "Toc H" was Army Signalling Phonetics which was the term used for the initials T.H., this being the intials of Talbot House. If 'Pip' for P only came out in 1927, why do WW1 period records refer to "O Pips" for Observation Posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 Paul, Thanks for confirming that "Pip" is indeed from the Great War period. I suspected an error on the 42 Signal Squadron website that was linked earlier in the thread. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 If your interest in the subject grows you will have to visit the house in Poperinge but, I believe, there are some changes to come in May after which there may not be such full access to all parts of the building. Go soon!! Hello Do you know what these changes are going to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 There are several threads about the 'changes' in Talbot House. Following is one of them: www.1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=930&hl=talbot+house. Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 There are several threads about the 'changes' in Talbot House. Following is one of them: www.1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=930&hl=talbot+house. Jacky Thanks for this Jacky. The thread you quoted is before I joined. I am learning all the time though. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 Brophy and Partridge "The Long Trail" give Ack, Beer, Don, Emma, Pip, Esses, Toc and Vic. They say this changed Feb 1921. So far, I have not found an offical list in my manuals, but I surely will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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