redbarchetta Posted 27 June , 2007 Share Posted 27 June , 2007 I bought this painting about a month ago, as it 'spoke' to me - it is worn, battered, with the state of the canvas very much echoing the state of the subject! I initially assumed it was Crimean period, the chap looking decidedly Russian, I thought... However more expert opinion than mine has pointed out that greatcoats in olive green / kharki are not Russian, but British... It was suggested this might have been a British 1914 pattern coat, supplied to the Serbian army and adapted by them, so this chap may be Serbian... It follows, then, that this painting may have been for a WW1 propaganda poster (on a "Help poor Serbia against the horrid Hun"-theme...)... If nothing else, it means the purchase wasn't such a departure from my normal sphere of collecting as I originally thought, which can only be a good thing!! Any experts on Serbian uniforms out there...? (Deafening silence anticipated...!!) Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 28 June , 2007 Share Posted 28 June , 2007 Can't help with the picture other than to say it might be worth asking David Cohen - he's the expert on WW1 art, but wanted to say I think it is a terrific find and a really nive piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 28 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2007 David, that's a cracking idea - I hadn't thought of him... Will give me a good excuse to catch up in general (now my finances have recovered after my last shopping trip 'chez Cohen' !!) Thanks, mate Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 28 June , 2007 Share Posted 28 June , 2007 Can't Id your painting but worth mentioning that Russian units did indeed wear greatcoats of that colour at various dates including the Crimean war. In that war the coats had large brass buttons and coloured collars!. The uniform underneath was the usual Russian green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 29 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2007 No cats amongst these pigeons, please Centurion, I was happy with the WW1 attribution!!! In fairness I bought this assuming it was Crimean era, but then a certain academic pointed me down the WW1 Serbian route, insisting only the British Army used olive green (but the wearer obviously wasn't British, hence the Serbian, and thus WW1, suggestion). My initial research on Russian uniforms (when I assumed it was Crimean) had only found grey coats... now I'm back to square one!!! Seriously, though, thanks for that... further investigations beckon...! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 29 June , 2007 Share Posted 29 June , 2007 Sorry for that but mid nineteenth century Russian great coats seem to have been available in various shades of grey to brown with an olive greenish in between - I'm going by various contemporary illustrations in the material I accumulated in my BMSS days, when I made and painted model soldiers. The variation probably arose because there was no centralised manufacturing and regimental colonels would source items such as great coats locally and the dyes were not all that stable either. However I'm not saying definitely that it isn't a Serbian (I also used to be a management consultant ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 29 June , 2007 Share Posted 29 June , 2007 Does this help? http://www.serbianunity.net/culture/histor...forms_text.html Radical changes took place in 1908.... The cut of the uniform was the same as the existing officers' blouse for all services. Services were distinguished by petals in colour on the front of the collar. The greatcoat retained the same cut but petals were added in the service colours. Good list of Uniform Illustrations here. http://www.serbianunity.net/culture/histor...rms/select.html I reckon your painting earlier than 1914-18. Looking at this site too, your painting doesn't really fit. http://www.landships.freeservers.com/serbi...nifs_in_ww1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 29 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2007 Owen, That is very interesting, thank you so much! This actually looks like the 1904 King's Guard greatcoat (from the middle link). If they re-vamped the whole army uniform in 1908 then the 'cast-offs' could, possibly, have been dragged out to equip the third tier soldiers, i.e. the old men such as this, when WW1 kicked off and it was 'all hands to the pump', so to speak...? Very interesting, thank you. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aley Posted 1 July , 2007 Share Posted 1 July , 2007 Jim, have you investigated the signature? I take it that it is canvas/linen on a strecher? If so are there any markings on the back of the canvas or on the stretcher bars? How has the canvas been attached? David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 1 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2007 The signature looks like 'Tualandu' - I have tried to find that, with no success, but if it is some obscure eastern European artist, and possibly spelt differently as the signature is slightly stylised, I'm never likely to find it other than by accident (just tried Googling 'propaganda artist serbian' and the top two hits are now this thread!!!). There is nothing useful on the strecher bars etc, except that is appears to have been through an auction in the 1940's, but doesn't indicate who the auctioneers were or anything that would actually be any use!! Typical. I like the idea that it is WW1 propaganda, so I think that's how I'll view it until such time as I find something that proves it one way or the other, and just enjoy it in the meantime!! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aley Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 Jim, I hope you don't mind if i chuck in my two bob, for what it is worth; it makes me think of socialist realism(?). There's no way it could be WW2 era is there? Perhaps the 1940's auction date?... - David P.S. Looking at it i get the feeling that the artist is referencing popular religious style art - a suffering saint. Perhaps the intention was to elicit from the viewer the type of sentiment previously reserved for religious imagery? (Although he's looking to the viewer and not to god). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 3 July , 2007 Share Posted 3 July , 2007 I highlighted the picture for a little more clarity. It might have connections to the First Balkan wars prior to WW1 (1913) and if a Serbian artifact the little barney they were involved in with Bulgaria in 1885 The name if Tualandu sound Romanian, I will check around seeing I am in Transylvania. Connaught Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 July , 2007 Share Posted 3 July , 2007 Connaught - there were actually two Balkan wars before WW1. 1st Balkan War 1911 -13 Serbia and others fighting the Ottoman Empire, 2nd 1913 Serbia and others fighting Bulgaria over the division of the spoils. The large brass button on the lapel appears to have some form of emblem on it - if this is more visible on the original painting it might help ID However we may all be making the mis assumption that the artist has got the uniform details right in the first place - it wouldn't be the first (or the last) time a apinting has misled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 3 July , 2007 Share Posted 3 July , 2007 Hallo centurion, thanks for clarification with regards the Balkan Wars. Not meaning to stray off topic, but, here is a postcard portrait depicting a Bulgarian Military Flag bearer: Circa 1875 War with Turkey. Is the white beard a common theme in these lands, denoting maturity and respect?? Connaught Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 3 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2007 David, Like your idea of echoing saintly paintings from the 19th century, I do see what you mean (but obviously the beard helps greatly!!) Connaught, thanks for all of your thoughts (I hadn't spotted you were from Romania until you mentioned it - this Forum is too international for words!!). If you check your telephone directory and find ten pages of Tualandu's, then do let me know!!! In fairness my chap could actually be your Bulgarian flag bearer, albeit fallen on hard times!!! Finally, Centurion, I agree the buttons are obviously embossed with an emblem, but sadly the original is no clearer than this photo, sorry...! Thanks, all, greatly appreciated, as ever... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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