welshdoc Posted 21 June , 2007 Share Posted 21 June , 2007 This ones very odd and looks like an error as a man should not have been awarded an ARRC in 1916 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Royal-Red-Cross-meda...1QQcmdZViewItem The source of the error? http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= no mention of an ARRC in this MSM award http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= So is it a compound error of the positioning of an apparent promotion in the LG with ARRC awards and the similarity in type of KRRC with ARRC . Or would there have been such an error conceivably lead to actualy handing out this award, to whom we must presume is a man in the KRRC? mmm Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 21 June , 2007 Share Posted 21 June , 2007 Whether it was a mistake or not....he was awarded the ARRC, fantastic rarity. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 21 June , 2007 Share Posted 21 June , 2007 I can't see any evidence that he was ever awarded the ARRC - and of course it was impossible anyway. The 1916 entry in the LG seems to be the origin of the error, when his promotion is printed below the award of an ARRC to a Miss Lowe, without a separate heading. Then the KRRC Chronicle picks up on this - I wonder why? There seems to be no reason for it, other than that they have mis-read the entry. Then, at some point, someone has cashed in on the error, and added an ARRC, which are issued un-named, from a different source, and the myth becomes 'reality.' I wonder where the seller got the 'group'? And how he can tell us it's '100% genuine.' Wishful thinking IMHO. And all based on an unofficial publication. And of course, not only was the RRC/ARRC only awarded [at that time] to women, those women had to be employed in the nursing services, or in the care of the sick and wounded. I can believe that this seller is genuine, but he seems to have had his head turned by the flimsiest evidence. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 21 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2007 Thanks Sue , thats what I thought. Shows you have to be careful in analysis even of the LG. As for the medals they probably are genuine just not to the same person. I cannot imagine the monetary value of such a group if it was true? gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 21 June , 2007 Share Posted 21 June , 2007 Gareth Ah, but if it can't be true, then it doesn't have any value anyway! Still, there will probably be a buyer who's quite happy with it, so perhaps that's all that matters. As I don't have any inclination to collect medals, I shall just be an interesting bystander. Wherever possible, the award of a RRC/ARRC was made at an Investiture at Buckingham Palace, and nurses were granted special leave to attend, or waited until they returned from abroad if they were in the East. I'm trying to imagine Sergeant Beecroft waiting in the queue, trying to look as womanly as possible Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 21 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2007 That would indeed have been a wonderous sight . But your again correct as since its impossible not simply highly uncommon the value cannot come into the equation, didnt think of it in that light. (no pun intended) gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 I would imagine it would have been quite difficult for him to pick up a ARRC medal from a market stall so probably a made up group thas its gone through a few hands, but I bet it would have caused a stir on the parade ground. A few of my ex-colleagues who stayed in, both male and female, have been awarded RRC and ARRC which makes for a nice colourful row of medals. I seem to remember the first man awarded the ARRC was a navy nurse. Mick and by the way my previous remark was mischevious, i thought i had better say that following an email from someone who takes life far to seriously. Although if there is a picture of him wearing it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 22 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2007 The awards have been open for both sexes since I think 1976 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 I think it's a sin of conflation rather than deception, compounded by the 'clerical error' of the Chronicle. (Unless there's a lost document festering somewhere in the Archives making all of this right, but I doubt it, and if Sue doesn't believe it, good enough for me. Surely had he turned up at an Investiture this would have made a lot of - readily findable -press! Surely the honourable thing would be to detach the ARRC as 'not proven'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 Phil Given your derogatory remark about this site on the British Medal Forum, in a thread that covered the same subject, I'm suprised that you have commented here. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 Gosh your right! http://www.britishmedalforum.com/viewtopic...;highlight=arrc Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 23 June , 2007 Share Posted 23 June , 2007 Phil Given your derogatory remark about this site on the British Medal Forum, in a thread that covered the same subject, I'm suprised that you have commented here. TR Only in and as so far as I am weary of the vilification of medal collectors which continues here, notwithstanding the efforts of some to achieve balance - in both directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 23 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2007 At least the battlefeild "debris" collectors are disliked even more than the medal collectors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 24 June , 2007 Share Posted 24 June , 2007 Crikey, I never imagined anything I said about medals [of which I am almost totally ignorant] would get a mention on a medal forum. However, I would be grateful for a correction - I actually said that the RRC/ARRC would be awarded at an Investiture 'wherever possible'. I'm quite sure that this did not apply to ALL of them. Thanks - Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 24 June , 2007 Share Posted 24 June , 2007 Crikey, I never imagined anything I said about medals [of which I am almost totally ignorant] would get a mention on a medal forum. However, I would be grateful for a correction - I actually said that the RRC/ARRC would be awarded at an Investiture 'wherever possible'. I'm quite sure that this did not apply to ALL of them. Thanks - Sue Sorry Sue - read it too quickly. Will duly amend. And don't sell yourself short; bet you know several volumes more than some professed experts (not me!) on the R/ARRC. Always one of the most elegant British awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 29 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2007 Well no matter what we think the price of said medals is approaching £500 with 6h to go. Well above the individual value of the 2 medals. So either somone is making an error of judgment or if he was awarded such a medal even in error it would I guess be a bargain as the only man to have such a GV award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petestarling Posted 29 June , 2007 Share Posted 29 June , 2007 The Orders and Medals Research Society published quite a bit on the RRC by John Tamplin and according to the article in the Autumn 1977 edition the first award to a male was in the New Years Honours of 1977, to Chief Medical Technician Hugh Gowans RN. A later article in Summer 1990 states that four male Italian Doctors were awarded the RRC in December 1916. Pete Starling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 29 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2007 But a burly Sgt in the KRRC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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