First German plane shot down over England

[Steve Newman]

Hi All

Local legend here in Wickford Essex has it that the first ever German aircraft to be shot down over England (aircraft not airship) came down on the outskirts of the town. It all looks to stack, in that its said it was June 1917, the field is known as Gotha Field, and even the old barn (that has now collapsed) was said to be where the dead airman were laid out. The legend also has it that the barn collapsed the day they were buried/reinterred depending which one you believe!! Can anyone confirm this is actually fact and if so what was the aircraft and crews identity? Even better does anyone have a picture, (even if its not the first I'm sure one came down here) and if there's a pic around I will try and find the exact spot and take some Then and Now type shots.

Any help gratefully received as always

Cheers

Steve

[Terry Denham]

According to 'Air Defence of Britain 1914-1918' only one Gotha was lost over England during June 1917.

Gotha G.IV/660/16 was shot down off Shoeburyness. The book has a pic of it being salvaged at sea.

[centurion]

The only record of a German raider brought down over Britiain in June 1917 was L48 a Zeppelin this came down in a field Holly Tree Farm Theberton

A number of German aircraft were shot down in raids on Britain before June 1917 (some in 1916) but all came down in the sea

[Terry Denham]

'Casualties of the German Air Service 1914-1920' lists no German aeroplane fatalities over England in June 1917 other than those off the coast.

[centurion]

Most Gothas were brought down either in the sea or on their home flight over Europe (quite a number by the Dunkirk squadrons). The ealiest I can find one being brought down over Britain was on 22nd August 1917 when one crashed on the Hengrove Golf Course at Margate at about 11 am During the same raid two othe Gothas were brought down in the sea. This was a perticularly costly raid as on the outward part of the raid eight were lost, two being shot down over Holland (where high winds had driven them and the other six forced down by the adverse weather.

[Steve Newman]

Many thanks for the quick replies.

The date is perhaps a red herring as local historians can in my view can often cloud the facts whilst weaving a most colourful tale!!

I guess the question is did any come down in the Wickford, Essex area (maybe even shown as Billericay as its between the two but nearer the former). It's a story that has been published here many times and I don't want to publish it again without first checking what (if any) truth is in it. Looks like its definitely not the first... but did it happen at all??

Cheers

Steve

[Jim Clay]

It's a popular story, Steve. I saw mention in a local history booklet the other day - Wickford Memories or Aspects of Wickford, don't remember which - and it's also told in Judith Williams' Wickford: A History (Phillimore, 2006):

"On the night of 28 January 1918, the first German Gotha bomber to be shot down at night over England was destroyed by Sopwith Camel from no.44 Squadron over Wickford. The plane fell near Castledon Road ..."

OK, it's the popular story told again, but with some confidence - sadly, no source given, but could be worth following up?

Jim

EDIT: search on 'gotha' in Home & POWs forum and you'll find an alternative date for 'the first German bomber to be shot down over England'

Edited 12 June , 2007 by Jim Clay

[centurion]

A Gotha was brought down at this location on the night of 28/29th January 1918. It was shot down by two Camels from no 44 Sqn piloted by Lts George Hackwell and Charles Banks . Banks was flying a specially aremed 3 gun Camel with an upper wing mounted lewis on a mounting designed by a Lt Scarff (who had a reputation for that sort of thing). The German Commander was Lt Friedrich von Thomsen with a crew of unterofficers Karl Zieger (pilot) and Walther Heiger (gunner). Thomesen was shot before the crash and the other two killed in the crash. The Gotha serial no was 1696. This was the 5th Gotha to be brought down on British soil

[Terry Denham]

Banks was flying Camel serial B3827.

The Gotha came down on Frund's Farm at 22.10 hrs and both British pilots were awarded the MC.

The dead Gotha crew were..

Leut Friedrich von Thomsen (navigator & commander)

Unteroffizier Karl Ziegler (pilot)

Unteroffizier Walther Heiden (gunner)

The Gotha was No. G V/938/16 - Constructors' Number 1696.

Info from 'The Air Defence of Britain 1914-1918'

Sorry - Just noticed that centurian had already posted some of this.

[Steve Newman]

Many thanks chaps that helps enormously, so it did happen but just wasn't the first.

From the date supplied I checked the Southend Standard and there is a small piece about local residents watching a fight 'at great height' following a RAT a TAT of machine gun fire a colum of fire and smoke were witnessed. The aircraft crashed and the crew 'who all seemed remarkably young' were pulled from the wreckage and laid out at a nearby barn. So again it appears some more of the legend is actually true alas no photos and no mention of it being the first (which of course we now know it wasn't!!) but from such stories legends are made.... and am I gald I checked with all you gentlemen before reprinting someone elses findings!!!

Once again many thanks

Steve

[Julian Evan-Hart]

Steve I have several pictures of the Gotha crash at Wickford if you are still keen...Email me on j.evenhart@ntlworld.com and I will send them to you. Cheers Julian