wig Posted 4 June , 2007 Share Posted 4 June , 2007 These wheels were sold in Dublin on the premise/promise that they had been used by the Auxiliaries/Black and Tans in Dublin during the War of Independence. Of course I have no idea whether this is true. Two strong men are needed to lift each wheel which are about 4ft 6ins in diameter.The wheels are iron and the axle is steel. It appears that the entire was designed to come apart with ease. Each wheel has two hubs and each hub has eight one inch diameter spokes giving a total of 16 spokes per wheel. The ends of the axle are threaded internally suggesting a bolt connected them to the hub but these bolts are missing. The name Theodore Jones Patent London appears on the outer rim of each hub. The entire looks more agricultural than industrial to me. I'm assuming the Black and Tans did not get the most up to date of equipment (if their uniform is anything to go by) and therefore guess that these might be of Boer War vintage. I have seen some photographs of similar wheels being dragged up a cliff during the Boer War. Can anyone assist in identifying them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildaremark Posted 4 June , 2007 Share Posted 4 June , 2007 Most field artillery has 12 or 14 spokes. Some 6 inch guns have 16 spokes because of the extra weight but this wheel looks too narrow. 16 spokes must signify a heavy load, If it is artillery, I doubt if the Black and Tans had anything to do with it - policeman/paramilitary didn't have artillery. I would tend to think it is not military. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 4 June , 2007 Share Posted 4 June , 2007 It looks very similar to a wheel off a horse drawn hay rake. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 5 June , 2007 Share Posted 5 June , 2007 I agree with John , these are agricultural. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted 5 June , 2007 Share Posted 5 June , 2007 Dear Wig, Do you know why the vendor attributed them to the Black and Tans? Were they sold as artillery wheels? What other source of provenance do they have? Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vernonforbes Posted 12 May , 2010 Share Posted 12 May , 2010 These wheels were sold in Dublin on the premise/promise that they had been used by the Auxiliaries/Black and Tans in Dublin during the War of Independence. Of course I have no idea whether this is true. Two strong men are needed to lift each wheel which are about 4ft 6ins in diameter.The wheels are iron and the axle is steel. It appears that the entire was designed to come apart with ease. Each wheel has two hubs and each hub has eight one inch diameter spokes giving a total of 16 spokes per wheel. The ends of the axle are threaded internally suggesting a bolt connected them to the hub but these bolts are missing. The name Theodore Jones Patent London appears on the outer rim of each hub. The entire looks more agricultural than industrial to me. I'm assuming the Black and Tans did not get the most up to date of equipment (if their uniform is anything to go by) and therefore guess that these might be of Boer War vintage. I have seen some photographs of similar wheels being dragged up a cliff during the Boer War. Can anyone assist in identifying them Hello, I am writing a book on tension-spoke wheels and I ran across your post about Theodore Jones' wheels. Theodore Jones received a patent for tension-spoke iron wheels in 1826. He made the wheels (4' 2") for the locomotive Braithwaite & Ericsson entered in the Rainhill Trials in 1829 Novelty which is still on display at the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester. I have an article from The Mechanics Magazine (New York) vol. 1, no. 2, 1833 that describes the Royal Artillery tested them for suitability for service in India. They were very expensive and the company was dissolved in 1843. I was unaware that Jones' Patent Iron Wheels were ever used by The Royal Artillery. I think the wheels you acquired date from between 1833-1843. I saw you attached several photographs with your question. Unfortunately I do not seem to be able to view them, for some reason. If you still have them I would like to see any photographs you have of the wheels. Vernon Forbes Columbia, Missouri USA dansemacabre.1347@live.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 13 May , 2010 Share Posted 13 May , 2010 There was considerable interest in India in all metal gun carriages (termites loved the wooden ones) so I've no doubt that they would look at metal wheels. but in the UK metal carriages were late incoming (more difficult to maintain in the field etc). Cast iron garrison carriages were in use but only in peace and were replaced with wooden ones from store in time of conflict). The pictures are not showing for me so can't provide any further info except that a relative who was around in Ireland at the time once told me that the auxillaries did sometimes used improvised shields on wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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