White Star's OLYMPIC

[Lörscher]

Hi all,

please have anyone of the members knowledge of the White Star’s OLYMPIC movements during 1918 (especially voyage from – to with departure and arrival) while being used as an troopship ?

Her logbooks at TNA (BT 100 and BT 165) didn’t show any details for that period

Especially interesting is her location on 04.09.1918 as she might have been the target of an U-boat-attack that day !

Thanks in advance

Oliver

[historydavid]

Hello Oliver, the only mention in the OH of Naval Operations, Vol 5, Newbolt, concerns an incident on May 11/12 when the Olymic was on a NE course near the Scilly Islands, carrying American troops, when a U-boat (U 103) was seen on the surface. She rammed and sank it.

Best wishes

David

[chris.wight]

Oliver, this thread on another First World War thread will be of interest to you as the gentleman who started it, wrote a book about the Olympic, link.

[frev]

Hi Oliver

The Australian National Archives have 3 mentions for the Olympic in 1918 (though not available for viewing).

1. Oympic: Crew lists inwards for Port Sydney 1/8/1918

2. Olympic: Southampton Oct 1918 for Australia

3. Maj Harris & Fitter Greening returning invalided to Australia on steamship Olympic to connect with steamship Sonoma at San Francisco. (Embarked England 3/10/18 - connected Sonoma 22/10/18 - Sonoma arrived Australia 12/11/18)

So all this tells you is that she was somewhere between Australia (1/8/18) & England (3/10/18) on the 4/9/18.

Not much help, sorry.

Cheers, Frev

[Clio]

Hi Olli

You will be familiar with the U boat material at Kew. I found some significant material on Olympic's movements and I seem to recall that the escort was an American destroyer (you probably have this material already). I passed it on to Ron Young. It might be that if you follow the activities of the escorts (and the same escorts seem to have been attached on a regular basis) you may glean more.

I am carrying out similar research on Justicia and am running into the same problems as you. I have found the escort logs to be most useful in this context

[Lörscher]

@ Chris: I'm in contact with Mark Chirnside, we BOTH try to find out... but thank you !

@ David: I know the U 103 incident, but the attack on 04.09. obviously went unnoticed by the British (target identified by U 53 as vessel type OLYMPIC)

@ Clio: according to U 53's diary the OLYMPIC (?) was without escort during the attack, so no way to find out

@ frev: well, better than nothing, thank you !

Oliver

[Mark Chirnside]

Hi all,

Many thanks for your responses to Oliver. I appreciate the reference to my book, Chris.

Our main interest, in addition to the date Oliver has provided, comes from ascertaining some more specific voyage dates. Whereas Olympic's logs from 1915, 1916 and 1919 have survived and contain detailed lists in the printed pages which outlined the departure, arrival dates, the ports visited, and even the draught of the ship for every single voyage, the problem comes in finding some more material about 1918. Although some of the logs from 1917 and 1918 survive, unfortunately they do not contain the lists that the earlier and later logs do, so finding Olympic's exact voyage dates is awkward. Ironically, I have all the dates for voyages in Olympic's career barring the period in 1918-19 that we are focusing on; and although I know the nature of her trooping service, when I was writing the book in 2002 the specific dates were less important in terms of the overall narrative of her war service. Given the difficulty in finding them, I put it on my 'to do' list. There are war diary reports of her service which I had copied from the Canadian archives, yet even here there are gaps.

In the event that we cannot find out where Olympic was on September 4th 1918, we have narrowed down the possibilities in tracing the potential date that she was torpedoed by a dud torpedo that failed to explode on contact. After Olympic rammed and sank U103 on May 12th 1918, she was drydocked and her hull inspected for damage; we also know that she was drydocked in February 1919, and it was during that inspection that a hole on the portside amidships, thought to be caused by a dud torpedo, was discovered. With the logs missing, it is very hard to ascertain the dates of any drydocking during this time period. But it seems she would have been hit by the dud torpedo sometime between those dates.

Best wishes,

Mark.

[Mark Chirnside]

Hi Clio,

Many thanks for your response.

You will be familiar with the U boat material at Kew. I found some significant material on Olympic's movements and I seem to recall that the escort was an American destroyer (you probably have this material already). I passed it on to Ron Young. It might be that if you follow the activities of the escorts (and the same escorts seem to have been attached on a regular basis) you may glean more.

I am carrying out similar research on Justicia and am running into the same problems as you. I have found the escort logs to be most useful in this context

I appreciate this information. Although Olympic (if she was the target) was without escort on the September 4th 1918 incident in question, may I ask about the other 'significant material on Olympic's movements' which you allude to? As you can see from my post above, this specific summer 1918-early 1919 timescale is in many ways shrouded in mystery as far as many of the Kew records go. I would love to learn more.

Best of luck with your Justicia research. Do you plan to write an article about her? I'd read it, for sure.

Best wishes,

Mark.

[Stephen Nulty]

In case this is of interest to anybody re: Olympic, the folliwng is a transcription from "The Daily News" of Tuesday December 3, 1918.

War Service of the Olympic

300,000 people carried to safety

U-Boat sliced in two.

An interesting account of the career of the great White Star liner Olympic during her war service as “HMS Olympic” has been forwarded to “The Daily News” by a member of the crew, who signs himself “G.C.”.

“Her work during the Gallipoli campaign”, he writes, “when she carried about 8000 troops – at that time the greatest number ever carried by any ship – following upon her gallant attempt off the North of Ireland to tow the water logged Dreadnought HMS Audacious, was sufficient to put her in the first rank of transports, but her subsequent work in bringing Canadian troops and Chinese labour battalions, and then her wonderful career since Christmas 1917, when she arrived in New York for her first load of American troops, must put her in a class by herself as a ‘trooper’. She has carried over 300,000 people while on war service.

It would not be correct to say that Captain Hayes has brought her through without a scratch, but her scars are marks of honour. She bent and fractured some of her plates when, in the darkness one morning, she ‘strafed’ one of Germany’s finest U-Boats. Perhaps some of the 28 survivors will give their experiences when they are released.

In the Mediterranean, the Olympic was fired at on one occasion, but the torpedo arrived just in time to get into the back wash thrown up by her great propellers just after her ladyship had turned and had begun to travel at right angles to her former course. That seems to have been the only occasion on which the ship was actually fired at.

The Olympic had her adventures while she was carrying American troops. During March, April and May this year the German submarine commanders made at least seven daring attacks on her. The results of these attempts speak volumes for the keenness with which the look-out was kept. Not once did the enemy have time to launch a torpedo, for in every case he was greeted by 1 6in. shell or one of the destroyers was on his track with her depth charges. Perhaps some of Germany’s missing submarines are now lying below the track of the Olympic.

The most thrilling experience which the Olympic had took place in the darkness of early morning last May, near the entrance to the English Channel. It was just about 4 o’clock when look-out man Bennett (who was afterwards awarded the DSM), picked out of the almost total darkness the outline of a lurking submarine which was lying on the surface. Immediately after his warning should one of our forward guns blazed out, and the ship, with her helm hard over, spun around like a great racing yacht and crashed into the enemy.

The blow was, of course, not a clean one, or there would have been few survivors from the submarine which would have been cut clean in two and smashed and rolled under the great mass of the Olympic. Judging from the damage on the bows of the ship when dry docked a few days later the blow cut off one end of the submarine. The rest drifted past the stern of the Olympic and one of the gun crews on the poop planted a 6in. shell squarely into it. One of the destroyers in the escort dropped behind, and by the light of star shells picked up 31 survivors (4 officers and 37 other ratings), three of whom died on the way to port. The total crew of the submarine was over 60”.