Guest newworldmember Posted 24 December , 2003 Share Posted 24 December , 2003 Between 1982 and 1985, I made many trips to British military cemeteries in France and Belgium where officers and men whose medals I have are either buried or memorialized. In those days, I hardly ever saw anyone else when I walked through them, even at Tyne Cot Cemetery on Passchendael Ridge (the largest such cemetery in the world!), but I get the impression that, these days, they attract a great many people. Am I correct in this assumption? If anyone can shed some light on this matter, I'll be very grateful. Cory Kilvert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Birch Posted 24 December , 2003 Share Posted 24 December , 2003 Yes, large numbers of people now visit the cemeteries, even by the coachload. Over the last decade there has been an upsurge of interest in the Great War and battlefield visits. This has been brought about by the publication of a lot of popular books like "Birdsong" which have caught the Public's immagination, the growth of companies offering battlefield tours and ease of travel generally with cheap day returns on the ferries and tunnel. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientpoints Posted 24 December , 2003 Share Posted 24 December , 2003 There are some interesting points up and down within this thread. Give you some background. http://www.1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?s...=30entry49121 Regards Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 24 December , 2003 Share Posted 24 December , 2003 Although I think it are probably the better known ones that attrack all those visitors. Since I'm in the process of visiting them all I still come across many cemetery that hasn't been visited for months (as far as you can trust the visitor's book for this info). Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Missinne Posted 25 December , 2003 Share Posted 25 December , 2003 There has been a study concerning the visitors at Tyne Cot Cemetery. You can read it on Bezoekersonderzoek, unfortunately in Dutch but maybe the graphics showing the dates and visitors can be understood. In the period aug.-dec. 2002, there were 71493 visitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 25 December , 2003 Share Posted 25 December , 2003 Although I think it are probably the better known ones that attrack all those visitors. Since I'm in the process of visiting them all I still come across many cemetery that hasn't been visited for months (as far as you can trust the visitor's book for this info). Regards, Marco I don't think you can trust the visitor book info. I don't always sign them myself- there is either no pen or I forget or ..... I am sure there are lots of people doing the same. On the other hand, sometimes you see a cemetary described in some guide book as 'isolated and little visited' and you go there and see the entries in the book and how many people have signed in, say, the past month. This is the Western Front I am talking about. Specifically Ypers and the Somme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 25 December , 2003 Share Posted 25 December , 2003 You might also be interested to know that there a re a few which are also much visited by the French. Probably the best example is the Chinese Cemetery (Chinese Labour Corps) at Noyelles close to the mouth of the Somme. Because the headstones are in chinese and the stonework around the cemetery, particularly the entrace are in a distinctive Chinese style it attracts many French visitors because it is "different" and distinctive. Several years ago during the course of a 40 minute visit we saw perhaps a dozen french visits (individuals and couples) who visited with interest, read the register and all acted with appropriate decorum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 26 December , 2003 Share Posted 26 December , 2003 Though there is a lot more than a cemetery I have always seen many French at Vimy. In general I see more UK than all others combined until I get below St Quentin and there is a 95% drop in Brits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Birch Posted 28 December , 2003 Share Posted 28 December , 2003 Paul You are right about French visitors to Vimy. It seems to have become a popular day out destination for people living in the nearby industrial/mining conurbations of Lens and Loos, and their numbers often outnumber other nationalities. The park has also become popular with local joggers. I have also seen a lot of French visitors to the Newfoundland Park at Beaumont Hamel, and at Delville Wood. Thiepval seems to attract all nationalities - I have seen French, German, and Dutch cars/coaches all in the car park at the same time, outnumbering the GB Plates. I also heard some American accents amongst the visitors. On the other hand I have never seen any other than British visitors to the Shefield Memorial Park and neighbouring cemeteries (maybe the fact that you can't park easily and have to walk there has something to do with it). I have only been once to the Australian Memorial at Villers Bretonneux where the only other visitors were a coach load of French school children all rushing around with notebooks and seeking out particular graves. Exhuberant, but not direspectful. So far as the more remote cemeteries are concerned, these are usually deserted, although from time to time I meet a car load of fellow visitors, usually, but not neccessarily British. It is not unusual to see a few French visitors. Every time I visit the Salient it seems to rain! Not surprisingly there is generally not much evidence of other visitors, although last time I was at Tyne Cot, the only others braving the weather was a Belgium couple hudled under an umbrella. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 28 December , 2003 Share Posted 28 December , 2003 I would confidently predict that visitor numbers are very heavily skewed towards the cemeteries on 'the tourist circuit' in Ieper: Tyne Cot and Essex Farm in particular. It would be interesting for example to compare visitor numbers for Essex Farm with, say, Bard Cottage which is just over the road or Tyne Cot with Lijssenthoek a cemetery of similar size. As I've said before on the forum, my long term fear is that over time local authorities will encourage the CWGC to reduce the number of cemeteries using relative visitor figures as a yardstick. I hope that won't start to be a factor for a long time, but when you see housing, industrial and road developments heading inexorably for the 'smaller and less-visited' sites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 28 December , 2003 Share Posted 28 December , 2003 I would confidently predict that visitor numbers are very heavily skewed towards the cemeteries on 'the tourist circuit' in Ieper: Tyne Cot and Essex Farm in particular. It would be interesting for example to compare visitor numbers for Essex Farm with, say, Bard Cottage which is just over the road or Tyne Cot with Lijssenthoek a cemetery of similar size. I would have to agree with you on that one. I have to say that the cemeteries that I like to visit are not the ones that are visited all the time but the ones like Track X and I would much prefer to see the visitor numbers being spread more evenly. Cheers Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 28 December , 2003 Share Posted 28 December , 2003 I don't think you can trust the visitor book info. Well, as said as far as you can trust them. I have never signed one myself. But two months ago I visited around 40 cemeteries of the beaten track between Albert and Amiens and never saw one other soul comming, going or staying. Same holds true for the Bethune area in April of this year. But between Bapaume and Albert.... Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 28 December , 2003 Share Posted 28 December , 2003 There is a piece in today's Sunday Times quoting from the WFA about holiday makers (!!) visiting WW1 sites and creating a lot of mess including campfires at CWGC entrances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 28 December , 2003 Share Posted 28 December , 2003 I like to visit are not the ones that are visited all the time but the ones like Track X and I would much prefer to see the visitor numbers being spread more evenly. But how do you do this? You can't force people to visit cemeteries, you can only educate them they are there. Given the number of sites like Marco's that have cemetery information, there can hardly be an excuse for them not knowing they exist. If you mean groups should visit them more often - again how? A coach can be from 10-16 tons. How does it get to places like Track X which have roads with 3 1/2 ton weight limits on them? Every year on our tours we inroduce a new 'off the beaten track' cemetery into the itinerary, so that people don't see the same old ones - but it takes some planning. On walking tours it is easier of course. At Courcelette I can see less than a dozen people visiting the cemeteries some months; the gardners are there more often than battlefield visitors, and Courcelette has a book written about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 29 December , 2003 Share Posted 29 December , 2003 I was amused to see that according to the snippet in 'The Sunday Times' Travel section 28/12/03 mentioned above, the WFA 'looks after the Somme battlefields'. Blimey, how do they keep the subscriptions so low? On a serious point, I can't say I've noticed this rubbish and camp fires phenomenon, thank goodness, but most of my recent trips have been to the Salient. Is it a problem elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 29 December , 2003 Share Posted 29 December , 2003 I also read this and had a good laugh - there are isolated examples of it here and there, but nothing on the scale suggested by this article. Either they were misquoted or don't know what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Please also bear in mind that some of the smaller Cemetries do not have visitors books as I found when visiting Sailly-sur-la-Lys Churchyard. The CWGC advised me that it only sites visitors books in the larger Cemeteries and it is unable to maintain centrally a list of visitors to the smaller cemeteries. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen White Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 I'VE ONLY VISITED BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY MYSELF,ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS.IT'S SMALL (ONLY ABOUT 5000 BURIALS) AND IT'S AN ANNEX OF A MUCH LARGER CIVILIAN CEMETERY.BUT I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE ELSE VISITING AND ONE PAGE IN THE VISITORS BOOK CAN COVER A MONTH (LAST TIME I WENT ANYWAY).BUT IT'S CLEAN AND TIDY AND IN GOOD ORDER. STEVEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 In 1996 I scribbled a few notes down while visiting New Munich Trench Cemetery. I noted that the visitors' book had about ten pages. The entries over those 10 pages covered the previous 19 years! Not all visitors would have signed the book, of course, but in 1985, no-one signed it at all. In 1986, the seventieth anniversary of the Somme Battles, just one visit was recorded. I must remember to check to see if the increase in visitors to the Somme in general has any difference to the numbers visiting New Munich Trench Cemetery. Somehow I think the answer will be "no" even though the cemetery is barely a mile from the Newfoundland Memorial Park. As Mark has suggested, there are still lonely places to be found, and you don't have to go far off the beaten tourist track to find them. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Having made my first visit to the battlefields in april. Thiepval, Tyne Cot and Vimy did seem to have the most people. It was Notre Dame de Lorette that had the most diverse visitors by car registrations. Access & knowledge must play a big part in who visits which cemetary. As an earlier post said to get a bus to the cemetaries is not practical. Those away from the main road such as Albuera, Tank, and the many other sites are more for the self drive person than the organised tour and parking can still be a problem. I did not sign the visitors book (my friend signed a few) and looking back this was a mistake and a regret I can not put right until my next visit. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 I contacted Paul Hanson, the WFA chairman, about that peculiar article in the Sunday Times. He kindly replied very quickly. Apparently it was supposed to be specifically about the Butte De Warlencourt , which the WFA do own and is a popular camping site, but somewhere in the sub-editing etc, the Sunday Times got the story completely round their neck. (As usual,unfortunately, in my experience of newspapers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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