jimmyjames Posted 13 May , 2007 Share Posted 13 May , 2007 I'm currently researching a Glos Regt officer (Lt Henry C Barber) who died on 9th November 1917 and was attached to the West African Frontier Force at the time of his death. As ODGW records that he was drowned and Lt Barber is commemorated on ther Hollybrook Memorial I started my research with losses of Mercantile Marine ships on that date. By scouring the CWGC Debt of Honour Register for MM casualties on 9th November 1917, I came up with the SS Umgeni. Google did'nt link me with anything definate so I would be most grateful for any info on the Umgeni or any other vessels lost on that date. Regards Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 13 May , 2007 Share Posted 13 May , 2007 Hello Jimmy, It is unlikey to have been the Umgeni as it was torpedoed and sunk on the 7th. Three regular merchant ships were sunk on the 9th. 1 Ardglamis, travelling Clyde to Naples, carrying coal. 2 Ballogie, travelling Middlesbrough to Dunkirk, carrying slag 3 Frithi of Edie, lost without trace. No Admiralty or Admiralty hired merchants ships were lost on the 9th. Are you sure he was on board a ship at the time of his death? He may have had an accident whilst swimming. Does the Hollybrook Memorial give any clues? Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 13 May , 2007 Share Posted 13 May , 2007 Jimmy SS Umgeni was a Bullard King & Company, Limited vessel of 2,662 Tons built in 1898. She sank in November 1917 in bad weather whilst in convoy. She operated as part of the company's Natal Direct Line working initially out of Durban but then from East African ports. She was the first of three ships to carry the name in the company's fleet. During the war she served as a vessel of the Nigerian Marine out of West Africa. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 13 May , 2007 Share Posted 13 May , 2007 Hello Dave, It may have been bad weather at the time, but Umgeni was torpedoed by UB 22 in Robin Hood Bay, Yorkshire. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esskay Posted 14 May , 2007 Share Posted 14 May , 2007 The Times of Jan 4th 1918 carries a death notice for Lt George William Ambrose Kingham, 1st Batt The Buffs - attached West African Frontier Force - "on or about 9th November 1917 through the sinking of the vessel on which he was ordered to proceed to duty" For 3 years in the 20's "In Memoriam" notices are also published - naming the vessel as SS Umgeni and stating the date as 9th Nov 1917 CWGC lists him KINGHAM, GEORGE WILLIAM AMBROSE Initials: G W A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Regiment/Service: The Buffs (East Kent Regiment) Unit Text: 1st Bn. Secondary Regiment: Royal West African Frontier Force Secondary Unit Text: attd. Age: 22 Date of Death: 09/11/1917 Additional information: Son of George Frederick and Lila Emily Kingham, of 2, Brick Court, Temple, London, and Wareside, Herts. Educated at the City of London School, and Sandhurst. Member of the Middle Temple; Freeman of the City of London. Born in London. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 1 D. 10387. Cemetery: PADDINGTON CEMETERY A quick google search also leads to a few others on CWGC - Pantryman Patrick Doyle (Mercantile Marine) - SS Umgeni - DoD 9th Nov 1917, Marine P J Doyle (Nigerian Marine) - SS Umgeni - DoD 10th Nov 1917 and Troop Cook John James Cooper (Mercantile Marine) SS Umgeni - DoD 9th Nov 1917 From these entries I don't think Jimmy should completely discount his man having been aboard the Umgeni Cheers Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 14 May , 2007 Share Posted 14 May , 2007 David It may have been bad weather at the time, but Umgeni was torpedoed by UB 22 in Robin Hood Bay, Yorkshire. Thanks I will update my notes my source only had the limited info. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spithead Posted 14 May , 2007 Share Posted 14 May , 2007 Hello Jimmy The following from 'Dictionary of Disasters at Sea' UMGENI At the outbreak of the First World War the Umgeni was taken over by the Admiralty for service as a supply ship. On November 7th 1917, she left the Clyde in convoy for Lagos. Two days later the convoy ran into foul weather and became dispersed. The Umgeni was never seen again, but bodies and wreckage from her were washed up along the west coast of Ireland. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyjames Posted 14 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2007 Many thanks for your responses for which I am most grateful. Esskay's (Sue) note gave me the idea to search The Times and in the edition published on Thursday 7th February 1918, under Overdue Steamers, the SS Umgeni is described as being very much overdue. It does not state where the ship was last seen. I attach a copy of the clipping below. Spithead (John) notes that the ship was not seen after 2 days out of the Clyde and bodies from the wreckage were washed up on the West coast of Ireland. Esskay (Sue) points out that Lt G W A Kingham is a victim of the Umgeni's loss. His body must have been one of those washed up as he is buried in Paddington Cemetery. It is interesting that historydavid (David) says that Umgeni was torpedoed by U22 in Robin Hood Bay, Yorkshire, on 7th November 1917. If the ship had left the Clyde bound for Lagos (which would explain the reason that my man - posted for service in the West African Frontier Force - was aboard) would it have steamed this way? Again, many thanks indeed for the info. Regards Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 14 May , 2007 Share Posted 14 May , 2007 Hello Jimmy, My apologies, looks like I goofed on this one. I have referred the location of the sinking back to my information source, which is usually quite accurate. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 13 January , 2010 Share Posted 13 January , 2010 long time since this thread has been seen - some additional info from the Times of 7th Feb 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 13 January , 2010 Share Posted 13 January , 2010 jj The Lieutenant Henry Cecil Barber is indeed remembered on the Hollybrook Memorial. If you would like a pic of the panel with his name I can do that as I pass it most weeks. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 13 January , 2010 Share Posted 13 January , 2010 Found these people who died on the UMGENI BEATY, David Edmond Wireless Operator MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 BRETT, John Creamer Master MM Umgeni (London) 9.11.17 BUTLER, Sidney Robert Baker MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 BUTLER, Thomas Edward 2nd Engineer MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 8 11.17 CARSON, William Henry Seaman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 COOPER, John James Troop’s Cook MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 DAVIES, James Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 DEMPSEY, Michael Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 DOROTHY, Charles Borland Officer MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 DOYLE, P. J. Marine Officer Nigerian Marine SS Umgeni 9.11.17 DOYLE, Patrick Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 EVANS, Evan 2nd Officer MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 GOLDNER, Lawrence Seaman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 HARRIS, Isaac Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 HARRISON, Richard Surgeon MM Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 HAYDEN, John Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 HOWLEY, Edward Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 HUGHES, Richard Arthur 4th Engineer MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 JACKSON, William Norman General Servant MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 JONES, Robert Greaser MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 JONES, Thomas Richard Seaman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 JONES, William Ireland Purser MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 KINNAIR, Robert Donkeyman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 LAVERTY, Bernard Greaser MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 LEVER, Joseph Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 LOWE, Francis Hamlet Seaman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 LYNCH, John Walter Seaman MM Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 LYON, William Chief Cook MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 MANLEY, John Seaman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 McALLISTER, Robert Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 MILLS, Thomas Robert 2nd Steward MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 O’CALLAGHAN, Michael Lamps MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 OWEN, William Pantryman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 ROBERTSON, Harold Seaman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 SCULLY, A. E. 3th Engineer MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 SEYMOUR, William Conrad Chief Officer MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 SHEPHERD, John General Servant MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 SMITH, Alexander Boatswain (Bosun) MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 SMITH, Hector Chief Steward MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 STARKEY, Alfred Russell Carpenter MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 STILING, Henry Robert Pretoria General Servant MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 TAYLOR, George Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 TILBY, John William Valentin General Servant MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 TYRIE, John Henry Scullion MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 WALTON, John Fireman MM SS Umgeni (London) drowned 9.11.17 BECKETT, John T, Able Seaman, RNVR, Tyneside Z 1603, Umgeni, mercantile fleet auxiliary, 7 November 1917, ship lost, drowned BRADBURY, Harold, Able Seaman, RNVR, Mersey Z 2149, Umgeni, mercantile fleet auxiliary, 7 November 1917, ship lost, drowned WILLMOTT, Clifford, Leading Seaman, RNVR, Bristol Z 1102, Umgeni, mercantile fleet auxiliary, 7 November 1917, ship lost, drowned Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jcolclough Posted 4 May , 2012 Share Posted 4 May , 2012 Again, a very late addition, but my uncle was Georg Kingham and his body was washed up on the Shetlands rather than Ireland, probably carried by the Slope Current. The Umgeni probably went down in the Rockall Trough. Had she gone down earlier then the bodies would have come to the Hebrides, and had it been further South they would not have been caught in the slope current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 5 May , 2012 Share Posted 5 May , 2012 The Umgeni went missing since last sighted on 9 November 1917 when the convoy dispersed in heavy weather, she was voyaging from the Clyde (7 November) to Lagos, with a general cargo (Hull claim paid as war loss - wreckage subsequently washed up on the west coast of Ireland) Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamlash Posted 14 May , 2012 Share Posted 14 May , 2012 "Umgeni" left Lamlash in Convoy OB21 at 9 a.m. 7th. November 1917. A note reads "No record of Umgeni leaving convoy before dispersal. Nigel Pickford says there were 12 boxes of silver in the cargo and puts her position down as North of Shetland and Orkney islands. Given the cargo, this could be a bluff or he could be confusing her loss with an attack on her in September 1917, though he does a correct date and route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anne Burgess Posted 16 December , 2014 Share Posted 16 December , 2014 Re the list of names of people lost when the SS Umgeni was lost in 1917. Where did this come from? My reason for asking is that I am interested in William Bannatyne Thomson, who is said to have been lost with the Umgeni. This is stated in various online souces which are second-hand, but also the record of confirmation of his will, held in the National Archives of Scotland, says, "Thomson, William Bannatyne, 2nd Class Resident, afterwards the Crown Colony of Nigeria, a native of Scotland, died 09/11/1917 at sea, through the loss of SS Umgeni, testate. Will SC70/4/509; inventory SC70/1/611. This, being generated by the legal process of confirmation, should be a reliable source. So if William Bannatyne Thomson is know to have died on the Umgeni, why is he not included in the list above? And is there a fuller list anywhere of those on board the Umgeni? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 18 December , 2014 Share Posted 18 December , 2014 The list above is mostly based on the Tower Hill Memorial to those of the Mercantile Marine who died on war service and have no known graves; plus any whose bodies were recovered and have a war grave. In other words, the crew who were and on duty at the time of death; plus several men of the RNVR who likely manned the defensive gun, and who will appear on a different official memorial. Thomson is unlikely to appear on a CWGC memorial as he seems to have been a civilian passenger as opposed to crew. Regrettably, civilians were not officially listed on these. There may well be some other source for them as losses at sea, however, an I'm sure someone will enlighten us shortly. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmania Posted 18 December , 2014 Share Posted 18 December , 2014 The number of names recorded in the series BT344 (Index of Deaths at Sea) as being lost on the Umgeni is 74. I haven't made an in depth comparison with the names on Tower Hill but a cursory look indicates that the 48 listed above are among the 74. Thomson is there. Aled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HannahElwell Posted 22 August , 2021 Share Posted 22 August , 2021 Hello, hoping that people are still able to review and respond to this thread. I've learnt from Ancestry that I have a relative who died on the 'SS Umgent', November 1917 which I think must be a typo and it means Umgeni. My question is how do I find this - BT344 (Index of Deaths at Sea) - and is it likely to have his name/details listed? He was a civilian, a head teacher at a school in Lagos - Charles (Charlie) McKee Wright. Screen grab taken from here: https://femiokunnuchambers.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/KINGS-COLLEGE-THE-EARLY-YEARS.pdf Also Ancestry also indicates he was buried in India. Is this likely given it seems from the thread all the bodies were washed up in Ireland? Thanks so much for any thoughts anyone has on how I can track down more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 August , 2021 Share Posted 22 August , 2021 https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/maritime-deaths-1781-1968/ Search and download these records on: FindMyPast. I have looked but not found him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 22 August , 2021 Share Posted 22 August , 2021 Hello Hannah The National archives gives this: If you have a sub to find my past the record for Charles Wright is here: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=bmd%2fmtm%2fbt334%2f0068%2f001-154 Peter His name is mis-transcribed slightly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HannahElwell Posted 22 August , 2021 Share Posted 22 August , 2021 Ah amazing thank you!! I looked there for 'Umgeni' and couldn't spot it!! Thank so much! x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 22 August , 2021 Share Posted 22 August , 2021 4 hours ago, HannahElwell said: Also Ancestry also indicates he was buried in India. Is this likely given it seems from the thread all the bodies were washed up in Ireland? Thanks so much for any thoughts anyone has on how I can track down more info. I don’t think it is at all likely that he was buried in India, as there’s no family connection to the country. Charles was born in SE London in 1876 (son of Rev. William Wright, born in Ireland). His older brother David was the renown poet and preacher who emigrated to NZ and later moved to Australia. Charles was educated at Dulwich College. (McKee was a rich uncle in New Zealand). MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 22 August , 2021 Share Posted 22 August , 2021 8 minutes ago, KizmeRD said: Ancestry also indicates he was buried in India. That will be typical of Ancestry- see mistranscription thread ! Have you seen there is a Passenger list dated 31/10/1917 for the Umgeni, bound for Lagos. The list is of those embarked at Liverpool and I see some of those passenger names discussed above. On FindmyPast here although mis-transcribed as C W Wright ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HannahElwell Posted 22 August , 2021 Share Posted 22 August , 2021 50 minutes ago, KizmeRD said: I don’t think it is at all likely that he was buried in India, as there’s no family connection to the country. Charles was born in SE London in 1876 (son of Rev. William Wright, born in Ireland). His older brother David was the renown poet and preacher who emigrated to NZ and later moved to Australia. Charles was educated at Dulwich College. (McKee was a rich uncle in New Zealand). MB Thank you so much! I hadn't worked out the McKee bit so that's brilliant, thank you! No, I think now too India was red herring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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