Help with boots please.

[john in minnesota]

Grovetown,

Shame on me - yes - but I don't have a decent photo of the B2 boots to illustrate my point

JTP

[Grovetown]

Grovetown,

Shame on me - yes - but I don't have a decent photo of the B2 boots to illustrate my point

JTP

Hang on - I'll nip out and buy you a pair; there must be dozens knocking around......

GT.

[Joe Sweeney]

jholl72,

There is nothing about your boots that would not be applicable to Great War usage as a pair of private purchase boots.

There is also very little that would indicate a close relationship to an official RACD pattern.

These would be very acceptable for a mannequin and very frustrating if trying to concretely associate this particular pair with actual Great War usage.

Private purchase boots were extremely common. Pre-war Terriers were required to provide their own boots during annual training and on embodiment at the outbreak of war. These did not necessarily have to be of Army Patterns but must have been sufficiently serviceable to last three months. For this the Territorial Force soldier was paid a grant of, £1 4s. Since the War Office could not immediately take over the supply and equipage for the embodied Territorial Force the County Associations were required to contract for its own supply of boots, putting itself in competition with Army contracts. These boots usually equipped only first recruit issues. These boots should not have War Office acceptance stamps, as County Association contracts were not considered government contracts (War Office) unless they purchased additional quantities off existing War Office contracts which probably were not possible after August 1914 and for sometime there after.

In addition out of personal preference soldiers acquired ankle boots. Even the Guards allowed their soldiers to buy non army pattern boots. The Standing Orders of the Irish Gurads simply state that soldiers were allowed to acquire their own boots but the toes "must not be excessively pointy".

I have an article coming out in Militaria on Great War British Army Boots in either the May or June issue. It covers from 1037i/1907 through 10085/1927 (WWII type ankle boot) patterns. These include the early generic B series to the specific B1, B2 (double and tripled soled varieties), B5's, B6, B7 and the later types introduced in May 1918 and after with toe cases (Introduced in an official pattern in May 1918 for boots specifically meant for troops in Italy). I also delve a little into private purchase options although this by nature is not too exhaustive.

Joe Sweeney

[6th Hauraki KIA KAHA]

Hi

Thanks Joe and Grovetown for clearing that up, it has cleared the smoke put down by some of the others

I have many pictures such as of my Great grandfather wearing similar boots.

One Question for Joe or Grovetown, were most WW1 British army boots issued as Brown or tan on Colour?

Who wore Black Boots, Rifle Brigade?

Jonathan

[uncle bill]

Here is a pair of mint 1916 dated boots. I have always thought that they were issued in this colour and blackened by the soldier.

[CROONAERT]

it has cleared the smoke put down by some of the others

Well, I do most humbly apologise for attempting to help using the best of my knowledge available to me! I'll certainly be picking and choosing which threads (if any!) I decide to attempt to help out on in future - I certainly don't want to be putting down any more "smoke" to confuse people do I?

Dave

[6th Hauraki KIA KAHA]

Dave

I was meaning they made it more clear to an dummy like me I was a bit confused.

It is always good to have a debate, was not meant to offend you sorry if it did.

Jonathan

[Joe Sweeney]

Here is a pair of mint 1916 dated boots. I have always thought that they were issued in this colour and blackened by the soldier.

"One Question for Joe or Grovetown, were most WW1 British army boots issued as Brown or tan on Colour?

Who wore Black Boots, Rifle Brigade?"

Uncle Bill/Jonathan,

Yes Since 1902 British Ankle boots were supposed to be manufactured in the brown (natural).

Two pairs were issued per soldier and in fact only one was to be blackened for orders of dress other than that requiring Service Dress be worn. Service Dress was supposed to be worn with brown boots--there were exceptions if talking about highland shoes.

When in the field the blackened boots were supposed to be left to turn brown again and no polish applied--except dubbin.

A lot of this was ignored, by the way, and many boots were also dyed black by the soldier making it look perminent .

Also during the war hides of acceptable chrome tanned black leather were allowed to be made into ankle boots as a substitute. These were never very numerous but allowed production to continue with alternate hides. Use of Black leather was banned in 1920 or 21 (I'll have to look-up the date).

No particular distinction for RB's unless some unit commander mandated it.

Black Leather was not used until 1927 (Pattern 10085) as the primarry type.

UB,

Nice date, I don't think that I've seen a date that early on the interior of the boot. Most being marked on the outside instep--where they rapidly dissapeared. Many 1917 and 18 dates on the inside though.

Joe Sweeney

[Grovetown]

Couple of pictures people might find of interest.

First is a 1916 date in the interior of a commercial/ private purchase B5 type boot. Apologies for the quality of the shot, but it's not easy poking a camera into a boot....

The second is, again, a B5 style boot in black leather; and utterly mint/ unissued. The only markings are a 6 (size) on the sole and on the ankle. Whether period is hard to say, but they are of some considerable age and the tiny size makes them unlikely to be repro for re-enactment.

Best wishes,

GT.

[nbroardarrowz]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any ideas about these boots.

Barry

[jholl72]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to thank all those who helped in the discussion of these boots. As I said before, I knew nothing about them and I think you guys have created a thread that is probably the best source of WWI boot information on the net.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and participating in a productive debate.