complete set of documents

[toffo]

pals,

couldnt think of anywhere else to place this, a friend of mine has just shown me a complete set of documents that belonged to his Grandfather, the only things that are missing are his medals.

As you can imagine i nearly collapsed

To put it in perspective the documents include the original headstone leaflet sent out from the WGC for the choice of epitaph on the headstone, he also has the dog tag, the death penny, enlistment papers, pension document etc. (along with his service record as local militia for the boer war)I have tried to emphasise the importance of the documents to him but he can't grasp the fact that they are "nickable". Could anyone advise on what sort of monetary value you would be looking at, just so he may grasp what they are worth and have them stored somewhere safe?

i will post photographs once i have removed the name from the scanned images for security reasons.

toffo

Edited, after looking and speaking in depth turned out to be his grandfathers documents who served in Boer War , lost his brother in WW1 (where he served as well) and was rejected for second world war service as too old!! WGC leaflet belonged to another family member killed in WW2 whilst POW.

[Pete L]

Hi Toffo

I have never seen an original set of enlistment papers. The rest you see in ones and twos, never in a complete set. And the Boer War stuff adds to the ‘story’. The pension papers in particular I find very revealing., and put old soldiers into their social framework. How little they were paid, and how much a wife or child was ‘worth’.

In hard-nosed cash terms, the documents themselves must be worth £100 - 150, and double that with the memorial plaque and ID tags.

But if you planning to scan them, it would be great if you could do high-resolution colour scans to a CD. I am sure that the local museum and the regimental museum would love a copy, not to mention other members of his family. Personally I would pay £10 for a copy. On the right website he could sell 100 over time. So 100 times £10 is closer to their true monetary value.

Most documents are ruined by being folded. The local library or museum should be able to provide details of a supplier who could supply acid-free folders to store them in.

Pete

[susanhemmings]

Wow, what a find. Your friend is very fortunate.......

Awaiting photos.......and thank you friend for sharing with us.

susan.

[toffo]

Wow, what a find. Your friend is very fortunate.......

Awaiting photos.......and thank you friend for sharing with us.

susan.

1st one i manged to get done

[toffo]

pension document.

sorry i have to blank some of the details out until i know there in safe storage.

it shows "Four Shilings and seven pence to be issued on written request of his brother

[susanhemmings]

Superb, and thanks for sharing. Awaiting some more.......

susan

[Graham Stewart]

Toffo,

Great to se that at least one family has decided to keep the documents, but as a document collector myself, I think Pete L has got a bit carried away as regards monetary value. At present with the Death Penny and Dog Tags, you would be pushing towards the £100 mark. Take them away and you would be lucky to get £30.

The only reason I'm saying this is because I have nearly a 100 sets of original documents and in some cases I'm not even paying a fiver a sheet. My most recent acquisition was to an RAMC lad who survived, but a Discharge Certificate, Employment Certificate and Unit Registration Card card cost less than £8. Have another set to a Sgt HLI coming and the price? - £21 including postage. The fact is these survivors are far more researchable, than a death to me, but paperwork doesn't rate highly among many collectors and why? because it aint shiney enough.

There again had the medals been there also you'd have had a massive fight on your hands if placed on E.bay. Personal opinion of one dedicated to research and preserving memory - priceless, but if people don't want them then I'll have them.

Graham.

[toffo]

Toffo,

Great to se that at least one family has decided to keep the documents, but as a document collector myself, I think Pete L has got a bit carried away as regards monetary value. At present with the Death Penny and Dog Tags, you would be pushing towards the £100 mark. Take them away and you would be lucky to get £30.

The only reason I'm saying this is because I have nearly a 100 sets of original documents and in some cases I'm not even paying a fiver a sheet. My most recent acquisition was to an RAMC lad who survived, but a Discharge Certificate, Employment Certificate and Unit Registration Card card cost less than £8. Have another set to a Sgt HLI coming and the price? - £21 including postage. The fact is these survivors are far more researchable, than a death to me, but paperwork doesn't rate highly among many collectors and why? because it aint shiney enough.

There again had the medals been there also you'd have had a massive fight on your hands if placed on E.bay. Personal opinion of one dedicated to research and preserving memory - priceless, but if people don't want them then I'll have them.

Graham.

Hi Graham,

apparently the medals are with another family member (including the Queens Boer War one), but he wont give them up.

[susanhemmings]

Thanks Toffo,

It's such a shame that things get so dispersed over the years. The main thing is, I suppose, is that wherever they are - they are with someone who treasures them and doesn't just bin them.

It would be lovely to reunite all medals with papers but an impossible task I know. Just an idealistic dream.

Thanks for sharing these though, they make interesting reading. That is one of the good things about "paper" format. You can refer back to it again and again, unlike my brain and what I transcribe from something. It just does not add up sometimes...LOL

Susan.

[maurice davis]

I am lucky to have two complete sets of medals and death plaques for two brothers who were my wifes great uncles these are still in the original registered envelopes thsa they where posted in, with each medal in a seperate box is the medal ribbon and also a form with a tear off botton which was to be sent back as reciept of said medals I also have their enlistment papers telegarammes informing family of their deaths also in the cardboard tube they where posted in are the inmemorial certificate sent to the family by the king also in the box where these medals and paper work were found was a ww1 hard biscuit and a phile of iodine this was in its original packing their death cert and birth certs one of the brothers pipe which still had some tobbaco in iot and a book which had surpossedly been sent back to the family from the treenches complete wih mud evey time I look at these items I feel a great sence of pride and honour to be able to look after them and keep them safe .

[Pete L]

Toffo,

Great to se that at least one family has decided to keep the documents, but as a document collector myself, I think Pete L has got a bit carried away as regards monetary value. At present with the Death Penny and Dog Tags, you would be pushing towards the £100 mark. Take them away and you would be lucky to get £30.

The only reason I'm saying this is because I have nearly a 100 sets of original documents and in some cases I'm not even paying a fiver a sheet. My most recent acquisition was to an RAMC lad who survived, but a Discharge Certificate, Employment Certificate and Unit Registration Card card cost less than £8. Have another set to a Sgt HLI coming and the price? - £21 including postage. The fact is these survivors are far more researchable, than a death to me, but paperwork doesn't rate highly among many collectors and why? because it aint shiney enough.

There again had the medals been there also you'd have had a massive fight on your hands if placed on E.bay. Personal opinion of one dedicated to research and preserving memory - priceless, but if people don't want them then I'll have them.

Graham.

Graham

Nice collection, but we do not appear to be comparing like with like here. Or do you have a set of WW1 and post-war documents, complete with Boer War papers and WW1 memorial plaque and ID tags?

Pete

[Graham Stewart]

Pete,

Obviously not like for like, but I'm a document collector and have some really nice stuff even predating the Boer War. It's once you remove medals and death plaques, the interest goes out it of it. As it is you'll find there are three collecting camps here.

There's the "pure moneyed collector" who would go for the paperwork/death plaque/medals who doesn't care what it costs and must have it, but can't be ar*ed to do any research, not interested in the regiment/corps just wants something else to show off to his collecting mates.

The "specialist collector" collects to a regiment/Corps, knows his stuff, knows the value isn't monetary

and will try to get it at a sensible price. He's the guy who probably has thiry or forty trios/pairs to a unit and lovingly preserves them and the history they contain. Seems to prefer to have paperwork with medals, interest wains if not together.

Then the "anorak/collector/researcher"(me) don't give a monkies if there's any medal or death plaque, just love paperwork and what it stands for and from what can be gained from it in the terms of understanding recruitment. On top of which unlike the "must have it at all costs", I do set myself a price range.

As I said earlier if you remove that death plaque and dog tags the interest would tail off dramatically. I mean what would you give for a no medals "Discharge & Character Certificate's" of a Royal Scot enlisted 1881 discharged 1893 and also his later "Discharge & Character Certificate's" for re-enlisting for the 2nd Bn, Royal Reserve Regt of Scotland 1901?

The fact that they're to a Reserve Regiment during the Boer War was good enough for me. Actual cost - £10 the lot. I have paperwork to surviving M.M.'s and M.S.M.s as well as general campaign medals, but there's no medals with them and there was no interest even from "specialist collectors"

so it ends up here.

Stick the medals with them and there'd be pandamonium on E.bay. Remove the medals keep the death plaque and tags, now the humming and hahhing starts - "give you £80 if you chuck in the paperwork", is probably what you'll hear.

Take away the shiney stuff and yep I'll have them, but you wouldn't see me pay anywhere near that and that's not being dis-respectful to the owner.

Graham.

[toffo]

I feel a great sence of pride and honour to be able to look after them and keep them safe .

Maurice,

Pals who have set's of documents relating to their family members are extremely fortunate, I would think they are the "holy grail" to most who use this forum.

I agree the sense of pride and honour to be allowed to keep these documents must be great. The monetary value was to try and get through to my friend the importance of keeping them safe, as we all know nowadays everything has a cash value and items are regularly stolen for this purpose.

I have now began to help him research his family members mentioned on them, and he has seen the importance of keeping everything safe, and stored properly (were in plastic wallets in a file,everyone was handling them).

May your's stay safe for future generations.

toffo

[Graham Stewart]

Toffo,

Thats the right thing to do, forget the monetary value and see them for what they are, priceless family heirlooms of an age gone by, preserved and researched for the whole family to enjoy. I'm at the other end of the spectrum here, got the family medals and death plaques, but no paperwork and oh how I'd love to have just one Casualy Return Form/Discharge Certificate. Fortunately some of my relatives original paperwork survived the Blitz and I have the copies, but they'll never be as good as the real thing. With my dads stuff and mine I've kept both paperwork and medals together for future generations.

At the same time I'm still picking up all of those interesting bits of paper that neither families or collectors want.

Graham.

[SiegeGunner]

I mean what would you give for a no medals "Discharge & Character Certificate's" of a Royal Scot enlisted 1881 discharged 1993

I'm not a collector, but I would have thought that a certificate to a man with 112 years service was quite valuable ...

[toffo]

With my dads stuff and mine I've kept both paperwork and medals together for future generations.

At the same time I'm still picking up all of those interesting bits of paper that neither families or collectors want.

Graham.

Graham,

nice to know someone is going to preserve these for the future.

[Graham Stewart]

I'm not a collector, but I would have thought that a certificate to a man with 112 years service was quite valuable ...

Siege Gunner,

Doh!!!

Graham.

[pandabean]

Wow what a collection It is amazing some of the things that survive in families. For the medals there are a couple medal reunite sites out there that you could try.

Thanks for sharing.

[susanhemmings]

Maurice, that is a wonderful collectiion you have there and you are right to treasure it, for nothing other than they are precious and priceless to you. Just think - some of the items had been handled by your wife's ancestors. Truly amazing and a wonderful piece of history for you and your family to preserve and care for.