New Zealand Expeditionary Force

[KiwiHeather]

Hi all

I have now received my husband's grandfather, Alexander Paterson's military records ( it took less than two weeks from Archives NZ, so that wasn't too bad). Now I need help trying to read or understand some of the data.

As you can see he was fortunate not to see active service despite giving just over a year. There was not many pages to this service record and others were fairly easy to understand like being admitted to the Fargo military Hospital with influenza ( after only a few days in England), so I have only copied two pages to this site.

Can you help with the document headed New Zealand Expeditionary Force, as I can't read the 6th and 7th line and don't understand others.!!!

1. Is that word 'sling' and if it is, what does it mean in this context?

2. On April 11th, I posted a photo of two men - one in NZ army uniform, the other in Navy - I got some really helpful replies amongst which Aaron identified the collar badge for the NZ Rifle Brigade. Is this mans record consistent with being the man in that photo?

3. Does anyone know when the information on the embarkation nominal roll was collected.? If I knew this date, it would narrow down the range of dates Alexander shifted from Blackball to Wellington to live.

Each bit of information you find seems to trigger more questions, but you are truly an amazing lot of contributors able to solve most challenges.

Hope you can help

Regards

KiwiHeather

[alliekiwi]

Hi, Heather

Well the first one seems to say in the top left corner 'Otago Regt C Coy.' It lists his rank as 'Pte' which is Private... and that is not consistent with the Rifle Brigade, as his equivalent rank in the Rifle Brigade would have been 'Rifleman' written possibly as 'Rflm' or similar.

'Sling' was the name of a training camp in the UK on the Salisbury Plains.

Still looking to see if I can make out the rest of what you were asking...

Allie

[alliekiwi]

Okay, what I read it to say is this:

Embarked Wellington Transport 108 27 July 1918 Emb roll

(he left wellington on the 108th transport, leaving on the 27th of July 1918, as listed on the Embarkation Roll)

Disembarked London 4.10.18 Disembarkation roll

(that's the date he arrived in London from NZ)

Posted Res Otago Sling 4.10.18 ... can't read something to do with the 8.10.18

(Posted to the reserves of the Otago regiment at Sling camp)

Adm MH Hosp Sling Influenza

(admitted to the military hospital at Sling camp with influenza)

Dis MH Hosp to Sling 21.10.18

(That's the date he was discharged from hospital back to the camp)

M/in means 'marched in', m/out = 'marched out' (date arrived and date left)

The rest of this is me squinting at the screen trying to make the odd bit out. Some of the letters may be wrong!

L... OPD Sling 26.12.18

M/onto WPD .1.19 Nom roll (Nominal Roll, I'm guessing)

M/out to Larkhill WPD 22.3.19 (Larkhill was also a camp on the Salsbury Plains) B213

M/in APD Sling & detachment 12-4-19 B213

I'm not sure what the B213 is - could be an order or another form?

Actually, I'm not entirely certain if there were two camps, or if there was one. According to the list of abreviations given to me by Trentham when I got a service file from there, 'Sling' was also known as 'Slingshott' and was the main NZEF depot/camp at Larkhill. It was in Bulford. So were there two camps in the same area? I *think* there were two - anyone know for certain?

Allie

[Kookaburra]

Fargo Hospital was at Larkhill. http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-confli...1/salisbury.htm

Cheers, Diane

[ZackNZ]

Hi there

Transport 108 was Ulimaroa with the 41st Reinforcements (1,004 troops) Officer Commanding was Capt A W Short and Ship's Master W J Wylie. It left New Zealand on 27 July 1918 and arrived London on 4 October 1918.

Zack

[KiwiHeather]

Thanks everyone for your information. I was so hoping that this record matched up with the man in the army uniform in my earlier photo - looks like I will have to start my search all over again, but I have certainly learnt so much more along the way and I find this site so fascinating and informative.

Regards

KiwiHeather

[christine liava'a]

Heather, his date of attestation on page 1, underneath, is 16/3 or 5 /18 so it looks like he was in Blackball prior to that, but he has 2 addresses in Wellington, so could have arrived earlier

He was working for the USSCo, presumably as a fireman on one of their ships, since he was a coalminer. Their records are held in Wellington somewhere, maybe at Ngauranga?I think it would be worth looking there to find when he joined them.

Christine

[KiwiHeather]

Thanks for the suggestions Christine. There is always another avenue to follow - just needs someone to point you in the right direction !!!

KiwiHeather

[Aaron Nelson]

Thanks everyone for your information. I was so hoping that this record matched up with the man in the army uniform in my earlier photo - looks like I will have to start my search all over again, but I have certainly learnt so much more along the way and I find this site so fascinating and informative.

Regards

KiwiHeather

Hi Kiwi Heather,

Dont rule out the man in your photo just yet !!!!

I have a wonderful picture of my relative also wearing the New Zealand Rifle Brigade badge, however he served in the 1st Auckland battalion on active service in France. He left NZ as part of the NZRB but swapped units once he arrived in England. We never got a picture of him with the Auckland unit badges because when he left NZ he wore NZRB Badges. They often changed regiments when they reached Sling Camp. Do you have any more pages of the service file which you are able to scan, often there is a history sheet, that may show when he changed regiments..

cheers Aaron.

[alliekiwi]

This is a page from the service record of one of my relatives. As you can see, he started out in the Infantry as a Private, and was promoted to Lance Corporal, before being transferred to the Rifle Brigade where he was demoted to the rank of Rifleman.

Yours theoretically should show the changes like my attached form ... but it may not because of a clerk not getting around to it, or whatever. Or it may be on another page.

Also, as Aaron says, sometimes you only get a photo of them in one uniform - in our case, we only have him in his infantry uniform, not one of him in his NZRB uniform.

Allie

[KiwiHeather]

Hi Aaron and Allie

Thanks for the continued interest in my quest. I have finally got these documents down to a size that they will be accepted - hope you can read them. I have enclosed three pages but this record does not appear to have a page like the one you are showing me Allie. One page is similar to a previous one, except more readable information.

Thanks for giving me renewed hope that it may yet be the man in the photo.

Regards

KiwiHeather

[alliekiwi]

Heather, I'll PM you my email address if you'd like to send me the larger versions of the pages. I can put them up so they're bigger and more legible.

Allie

[alliekiwi]

Here's are Heather's scanned service file pages:

Allie

[alliekiwi]

Well, his Certificate of Discharge (3rd document in the above post) says it plainly - Otago Infantry Regiment.

The document above that says he was with the 3rd Reserve Batallion of the Otago Regiment, having marched in with the 41st reinforcements.

I don't think he was in the Rifle Brigade at all. How about we have another look-see at that photo?

Allie

[alliekiwi]

We know that he was 5 feet 3 inches tall, brown hair and grey eyes and of pale complexion. The chap in question does look rather short...I'm wondering if he could be a Paterson relative. There are other Paterson files listed at Archway, although none of them specfically have a Rifle Brigade prefix. Are there any matches in the Nominal Roll for a relative?

PATERSON, Arnold Ogilvy - WW1 44949

PATERSON, John Charles - WW1 27577

PATERSON, Reginald - WW1 36250

PATERSON, Roy - WW1 45015

PATERSON, Stanley Logan - WW1 13222

PATERSON, Thomas Francis - WW1 91297

Could any of those be our man? Are any of them Rifle Brigade?

Allie

[KiwiHeather]

Thanks for the continued interest and suggestions.

Alexander Paterson had brothers but unfortunately none of the names suggested from Archway match. I haven't checked the nominal roll though. His brothers were

Robert born 1891

Walter born 1895

John Dempster born 1897

James Alexander born 1899 (they must have been short of names)

William born 1901

I had thought that maybe the navy man was a brother who had remained in Scotland if the soldier was Alexander, but have not found a match there yet although there is a very close match I will follow up.

Hopefully because the studio background is so distinctive and the photo is numbered H405 someone will have a photo in that series and I can follow another avenue. Because this was made into a postcard, I have been looking on all websites selling postcards but it is a bit like searching for a needle in a haystack!!

Cheers

KiwiHeather

[Guest Abbeykiwi]

Hi KiwiHeather

I recently sent away for both my Grandfathers war records. One held in Archives wgtn the other NZDF Trentham. I received that one within two weeks, (18 May). The Archives I still have not rec'd anything (and yes $25 is alot). Any way I came across your Post about your Husband's grandfather and this web site. (this is my first post). My grandfather Everard Alexander Roberts has the same details as Alexander Paterson. Transport 108 wtgn 27/7/18 etc. to Fargo 16/10/18. Everard then went awol for 3 hours in Torquay ?

I wonder if they met each other among the 1000 other troops on transport 108 etc.

Regards

KiwiTracey

[KiwiHeather]

Hi KiwiHeather

I recently sent away for both my Grandfathers war records. One held in Archives wgtn the other NZDF Trentham. I received that one within two weeks, (18 May). The Archives I still have not rec'd anything (and yes $25 is alot). Any way I came across your Post about your Husband's grandfather and this web site. (this is my first post). My grandfather Everard Alexander Roberts has the same details as Alexander Paterson. Transport 108 wtgn 27/7/18 etc. to Fargo 16/10/18. Everard then went awol for 3 hours in Torquay ?

I wonder if they met each other among the 1000 other troops on transport 108 etc.

Regards

KiwiTracey

Hi KiwiTracey

I hope you get as much interest as I have from this Forum. It would have been good to have had more details of their time in service but obviously it was difficult for them to talk about it when they came home. I guess we will never know if these fine gentlemen ever knew each other - unless of course we find some photos !!! I would be very grateful to know, if you ever come across any photos. As you may have worked out , I really do not know who is in my photo. My husbands family do not have any photos of Alexander, even in later life to compare it with. I live in hope that I will be able to identify them one day.

Regards

Heather

[Aaron Nelson]

Heather,

It may interest you to know that E company of the reinforcemnt drafts was designated as the reinforcements for the NZRB, please see below.

Each reinforcement leaving New Zealand consisted of several companies. The Rifle Brigade reinforcements listed above were combined with the infantry reinforcement numbers, which sailed at the same time, but given different company letters. This will now be explained in more detail, as the majority of these badges bore a company letter, as well as a reinforcement number.

Company Letters ;To commence with there were four infantry companies:

A Auckland

B Wellington

C Canterbury

D Otago

These first four letters applied all the way through. Each of the 1st to the 6th reinforcements were made up of A B C & D companies of infantry only.

From the 7th to the 10th reinforcements, A B C & D companies were supplemented by E & F.

E - 1st Battalion N.Z. Rifle Brigade reinforcement.

F - 2nd Battalion N.Z. Rifle Brigade reinforcement.

With later reinforcements, the letters E to J were not used consistently for the same type of unit.

Now my relative left NZ in the E company reinforcements of the 13th. When he arrived in the UK he was transferred to the Auckalnd Infantry. I mention this becasue I note your man left NZ in the E company of the 41st reinforcments. Its not conclusive, but atleast the evidence suggests when he left NZ he was part of the NZRB. Often when they arrived in the UK they were simply placed into the Battalion which need the numbers, regardless of what unit they left NZ with. This may be the only clue on your mans service record to state the NZRB service.

cheers Aaron.

[KiwiHeather]

Heather,

It may interest you to know that E company of the reinforcemnt drafts was designated as the reinforcements for the NZRB, please see below.

Each reinforcement leaving New Zealand consisted of several companies. The Rifle Brigade reinforcements listed above were combined with the infantry reinforcement numbers, which sailed at the same time, but given different company letters. This will now be explained in more detail, as the majority of these badges bore a company letter, as well as a reinforcement number.

Company Letters ;To commence with there were four infantry companies:

A Auckland

B Wellington

C Canterbury

D Otago

These first four letters applied all the way through. Each of the 1st to the 6th reinforcements were made up of A B C & D companies of infantry only.

From the 7th to the 10th reinforcements, A B C & D companies were supplemented by E & F.

E - 1st Battalion N.Z. Rifle Brigade reinforcement.

F - 2nd Battalion N.Z. Rifle Brigade reinforcement.

With later reinforcements, the letters E to J were not used consistently for the same type of unit.

Now my relative left NZ in the E company reinforcements of the 13th. When he arrived in the UK he was transferred to the Auckalnd Infantry. I mention this becasue I note your man left NZ in the E company of the 41st reinforcments. Its not conclusive, but atleast the evidence suggests when he left NZ he was part of the NZRB. Often when they arrived in the UK they were simply placed into the Battalion which need the numbers, regardless of what unit they left NZ with. This may be the only clue on your mans service record to state the NZRB service.

cheers Aaron.

Hi Aaron

Many thanks for this information. I am on a very steep learning curve and am finding this Forum very interesting. I am still trying all our family to see if anyone has a photo of Alexander Paterson when he was younger to try and confirm that he is the New Zealander in my photo - with no luck this far !! However, I take it from your comments that there is still a possibility that it could be him in this uniform.

Regards

Heather

[alliekiwi]

Alexander Paterson had brothers but unfortunately none of the names suggested from Archway match. I haven't checked the nominal roll though. His brothers were

Robert born 1891

Walter born 1895

John Dempster born 1897

James Alexander born 1899 (they must have been short of names)

William born 1901

I had thought that maybe the navy man was a brother who had remained in Scotland if the soldier was Alexander, but have not found a match there yet although there is a very close match I will follow up.

Where in Scotland were they from? There are a couple of James Peterson's in the NZRB, and this one has next of kin on the Orkney Islands. However, he may have a brother named Peter, also in the NZEF, as the next of kin address is similar but not identical - however, Kempston could be a misspelling of Campston.

Surname PATERSON

Given Name James

Category Nominal Roll Vol. 3

Regimental Number 41107

Rank Rifleman

Next of Kin Title J

Next of Kin Surname PATERSON

Next of Kin Relationship Father

Next of Kin Address Kempston Orkney Orkney Islands Scotland

Roll 55

Page 36

Occupation Ploughman

Surname PATERSON

Given Name Peter

Category Nominal Roll Vol. 1

Regimental Number 24/549

Rank Rifleman

Body or Draft 2nd NZRB

Unit or Regiment B Company

Marital Status S

Last NZ Address Porangahau

Next of Kin Title James

Next of Kin Surname PATERSON

Next of Kin Relationship Father

Next of Kin Address Ness of Campston Kirkwall Orkney Islands Scotland

Then there's a John, but he was in the NZ field Engineers, not the NZRB

Surname PATERSON

Given Name John

Category Nominal Roll Vol. 2

Regimental Number 23723

Rank Sapper

Next of Kin Title G

Next of Kin Surname PATERSON

Next of Kin Relationship Brother

Next of Kin Address 25 High Street New Aberdom Scotland

Roll 33

Page 22

Occupation Carpenter

Here's a Robert in the NZ Field Artillery:

Surname PATERSON

Given Name Robert

Category Nominal Roll Vol. 3

Regimental Number 43452

Rank Gunner

Next of Kin Title Mrs Marion

Next of Kin Surname PATERSON

Next of Kin Relationship Mother

Next of Kin Address Kilbrannon Villa Carradale Argyllshire Scotland

Roll 62

Page 23

Occupation Ploughman

And another Robert, this time in the Wellington Mounted Rifles:

Surname PATERSON

Given Name Robert Cotton

Category Nominal Roll Vol. 1

Regimental Number 11/139

Rank Trooper

Body or Draft Main Body

Unit or Regiment Wellington Mounted Rifles

Marital Status S

Last NZ Address Whakamarumaru Station Fernhill Hawkes Bay

Next of Kin Title Miss Ethel Mary

Next of Kin Surname PATERSON

Next of Kin Relationship Sister

Next of Kin Address 20 Royal Crescent Edinburgh Scotland

There are some Walter Patersons, but none with NOK in Scotland.

By the way, there are two other Alexanders with NOK in Scotland... including one on Orkney:

Surname PATERSON

Given Name Alexander

Category Nominal Roll Vol. 1

Regimental Number 10/2732

Rank Private

Body or Draft Sixth

Unit or Regiment Wellington Infantry Batln

Marital Status S

Last NZ Address Whetukura

Next of Kin Title J

Next of Kin Surname PATERSON

Next of Kin Relationship Father

Next of Kin Address St Andrews Orkney Islands Scotland

Surname PATERSON

Given Name Alexander

Category Nominal Roll Vol. 2

Regimental Number 25305

Rank Private

Next of Kin Title W B

Next of Kin Surname PATERSON

Next of Kin Relationship Father

Next of Kin Address 278 Keumme Street Pollokshields Glasgow Scotland

Roll 34

Page 18

Occupation Shepherd

Allie

[eenie15]

Hey, I am actually surprised you could find a war diary for a new zealand soldier. Do you mind telling me where I could find war diaries for new zealand soldiers?

Thanks

-eenie15